Nick Griffin on Question Time

[DB7]

I presume many will watch with a ghoulish sense of curiosity? They're a bunch of screaming racists but on the whole I think they should be allowed on - and challenged on their policies.

[Harleybloke]

Until the big three parties 'bite the bullet' and have a full on debate about immigration the BNP will continue to prosper. No matter how distasteful people find their policies, they address an issue that strikes a chord with a lot of people.



Instead of blustering about the BNP using Spitfires or St.Georges flag get out into those areas where the BNP is strong and 'fight the good fight'.



Until they do, Nick Griffin simply grows stronger. 'Look at them, they don't do anything for you'. The fear factor is too strong. Anybody standing up at a party conference and broaching the subject will be howled down as a racist.



Peter Hain would be of more benefit debating with them rather than trying to get them slung off QT. Just makes the Govt looked scared of a debate.

[Wolfgang]

I second that, except debate is pretty much pointless because there is common consensus among all main parties on immigration despite contrary public opinion. In 1970s and 1980s immigration ran at 50,000. We now hear it is running over 300,000 and Britain's infrastructure is unsustainable at that rate. Until either Labour, Conservatives or Liberal Democrats step up and cap immigration at some sensible rate then more and more people will vote BNP.



I think Nick Griffin is more political opportunist than racist - if all three main parties were against immigration he probably would be for it. In 1980s he was greasing Gadaffi with anti-Semitic policies. Now he allows Jews to join BNP and Muslims cop it. But he is shrewd and usually wins in televised debates, or at least comes out of them looking better than his opponents. This latest news on Britain's immigration is ideally timed for him as it will put debate into his comfort zone and allow him to shine. If you want to discredit them then you need to tackle other areas - away from immigration and racism - and expose shortcomings in economic policy and so on, because what he says on immigration will actually reflect how most voters feel on this subject.

[christoph404]

name='DB7']I presume many will watch with a ghoulish sense of curiosity? They're a bunch of screaming racists but on the whole I think they should be allowed on - and challenged on their policies.

Yes, disturbingly the BNP are not without some support from the voting public and as we are supposed to be a democracy I would say they should be allowed entry to a democratic debate and as you say they can be challenged on air regarding their policies. The trouble with trying to ban them from having a platform is that attracts more controversy regarding political censorship and free speech.... and creates more publicity for the BNP.

[Freddy]

name='Wolfgang'] This latest news on Britain's immigration is ideally timed for him as it will put debate into his comfort zone and allow him to shine. If you want to discredit them then you need to tackle other areas - away from immigration and racism - and expose shortcomings in economic policy and so on, because what he says on immigration will actually reflect how most voters feel on this subject.

I would like to see him tackled on racism but I agree with everything else Wolfgang says. Reading the comment sections on some of the newspapers they nearly all express concern about immigration and the population increase forecasts.



Freddy

[Mark O]

name='DB7']I presume many will watch with a ghoulish sense of curiosity? They're a bunch of screaming racists but on the whole I think they should be allowed on - and challenged on their policies.

No, i won't watch it, it'll probably be just a load of arguing and finger pointing about Immigration and Islam and there's enough of that in the Daily Mail!

[Lord Brett]

I won't watch it because my missus can't bear it. I predict, however, that the other guests will have been too lazy arsed to do the necessary research needed (a couple of hours on the net, or a quick call to Searchlight) to refute any and all claims Griffin makes.



And Wolfgang, Nick Griffin most definitely is a racist and a well-known holocaust denier and Nazi sympathiser.



EDIT: To prove both my points about simple research and Nick Griffin being a slimy Nazi lover I found the follwing in about ten seconds flat while I was looking for something else entirely:



http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/Nick-G...ist-for-Nazism

[doebag]

Not wishing to sound like I am rolling out the same old cliches....



Hundreds of thousands of allied soldiers died in WW2 so that all of us, and idiots like Nick Griffin, could have the right to free speech. Our job, and the politicians of the main parties, is to expose these people for the racist shits they really are.

Censoring them is just playing in to their hands.



As for immigration,

The figure of 300,000 that Wolfgang cites, is that including citizens from EU member states, who have a right to live and work here, and genuine asylum seekers ?

[Windthrop]

While I despise bigotry I do feel like many people that Griffin should be allowed to appear on QT despite the rantings of Diane Abbot and Peter Hain. I would be very surprised if the BNP actually benefit from the appearance given that every time anyone representing the party opens their mouth they put their foot in it. Their representatives always seem inarticulate and it doesnt take the sharpest of interviewers to guide them into an humiliating sylogism. I also think that David Dimbleby will, as he always does, handle the programme expertly, pulling the rug on those being pompous or bogus.

[Rowdon]

name='Wolfgang']I second that, except debate is pretty much pointless because there is common consensus among all main parties on immigration despite contrary public opinion.

Presumably not all public opinion, otherwise they wouldn't get many votes.

In 1970s and 1980s immigration ran at 50,000. We now hear it is running over 300,000 and Britain's infrastructure is unsustainable at that rate.

Since I heard the same argument in the late 70s, with reference, presumably, to the 'golden age' figure above, I really have no idea when non-sustainability will really kick in. How do I find out? Are you really sure that 300,000 is the tipping point?

Until either Labour, Conservatives or Liberal Democrats step up and cap immigration at some sensible rate then more and more people will vote BNP.

This is capping immigration from all countries? Isn't there a danger of using up our quota on a useless bunch of layabouts who only immigrated to laugh at the queen and wee in the streets, and leaving all the doctors from Canada and noble businessmen from Italy on the doorstep?

I think immigration will slow down when Britain stops being richer and freer than a lot of other countries. So the government should just carry on doing what it's doing, really.

I think Nick Griffin is more political opportunist than racist

Oh, yes. Good point.

In 1980s he was greasing Gadaffi

Was that a band?

If you want to discredit them then you need to tackle other areas - away from immigration and racism

Or, as has been said, you could actually come prepared and tackle him there, as well. I think the policy of "Let's not tackle the BNP on immigration" is a bit of a non-starter.

what he says on immigration will actually reflect how most voters feel on this subject.

Em ... I don't think so. Unless you have a very flexible understanding of 'reflect'.

[smudge]

Must say I find the whole debate on immigration fascinating - I wonder if they have similar debates in the small towns and villages of France and Spain which find themselves with a large contingent of (sometimes cliquey) British ex-pats...?



Smudge

[CaptainWaggett]

name='smudge']Must say I find the whole debate on immigration fascinating - I wonder if they have similar debates in the small towns and villages of France and Spain which find themselves with a large contingent of (sometimes cliquey) British ex-pats...?



Smudge

I read about one town on the Costas that has an English deputy mayor who doesn't even speak Spanish. I wonder what the BNP would think about a similar situation here...



Anyone else been browsing the latest BNP membership list? My guess is the chap who describes himself as "Retired solicitor. Part-time legal consultant for Slough Borough Council (town and country/local govt. matters). Hobbies: history, countryside, church, walking. Published author (articles)" may well find himself not doing quite so much consulting in the near future... There's also a Vera Lynn impersonator

[batman]

I watched the programme last night and I have to say it was the funniest programme I have watched in ages. Griffin (looking like Johnny Vegas tidier brother) was subjected to a barrage that can only be described as bullying!



Griffin sat smiling away through all of this and, as he spouted his 'philosophy' of life, came across as a not very intelligent man totally out of his depth with people much more media savvy than him. The body language displayed by Bonnie Greer throughout the programme was priceless as she, and the other panel members, joined in the fun.



The laughs didn't last long though because, in the end, it became quite tedious as Griffin dodged and weaved his way through the predictable (and stage managed?) minefield before him with no real serious debating to be seen. It was all on the level of 'Well Nick, are you are racist?', 'Ha ha' comes the reply, 'of course not, I simply been misquoted'. The audience whooped and hollered.



Far from being the 'early Xmas present' described by some, this was car crash telly. Griffin did himself and his party no favours at all. Even with the questioning at this shallow level he was unable to come up with anything resembling a coherent and persuasive response.



Well done to the BBC for inviting him on. There is room on TV for a serious and heavyweight discussion with Griffin about his party and his policies but this wasn't it. It was, however, a worthwhile enterprise because it revealed that if you get past the BNP 'spin' that is to be found in their literature, there is nothing behind it except the same old right wing paranoia. It also showed that their leader does not have the oratory skills that are necessary to get his message across to the unconverted.



ps - why was there a woman sitting in the front row dressed like one of the cast of a St. Trinians film?

[ghughesarch]

It was very amusing.



I wouldn't describe it as bullying though - Griffin made a complete idiot of himself by spending the first half denying he'd ever said lots of things he quite clearly has said, to hoots of well-deserved derision. Then went on to make a complete idiot of himself in everything else he said.



I understand the BBC chose the audience from people who'd applied before it was known that Griffin would be appearing.



The rest of the panel weren't really the dream team who could have taken Griffin to pieces in five minutes and left him a gibbering wreck at the end though, (Hislop, Benn senior, and the late Lord Soper would have been my choices for a fantasy BNP-bash), and at times it seemed it was left to Dimbleby to expose him as a fraud and a humbug - not that it took much doing.

[christoph404]

Yes I watched it too, I found the whole thing quite unpleasant, bear bating, cringe making stuff. I was disappointed that the panel and audience became like a rabid lynch mob, bullying and shouting Griffin down whenever he took breath to utter something. Griffin is an objectionable racist for sure but I thought all the anger and emotion of the crowd really deflected the opportunity to let Griffin himself show what a nasty piece of work he is in his own words, too many people trying to attack him all at once, it seemed a bit pointless and chaotic to me.

[ghughesarch]

name='christoph404']I was disappointed that the panel and audience became like a rabid lynch mob, bullying and shouting Griffin down whenever he took breath to utter something.

Am I allowed to say, on his past record, "it's the only language he understands"?

[homeguard]

name='batman']It also showed that their leader does not have the oratory skills that are necessary to get his message across to the unconverted.

Finger right on it, as usual, BUT what if they manage to eventually obtain the services of someone with a brain and mouth as quick as, say, Gerry Adams to front their organisation? Will the establishment then find it is too late to address the real concerns of a significant number of poor whites who recognise no other form of representation? Or will the next government continue to hope that ridicule is good enough and hope that fascism will quietly fade away?

These are scary times.

[Wolfgang]

name='batman']I It was, however, a worthwhile enterprise because it revealed that if you get past the BNP 'spin' that is to be found in their literature, there is nothing behind it except the same old right wing paranoia. It also showed that their leader does not have the oratory skills that are necessary to get his message across to the unconverted.

Well he is saying something right if he has taken BNP from being inconsequential to squeezing out 1 million votes. And if it is not down to him, say you could put anyone in charge and they would be just be as successful then it does not really make much difference whatever you expose him as.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='ghughesarch']



I understand the BBC chose the audience from people who'd applied before it was known that Griffin would be appearing.

There seemed to be a little claque of knuckle-scraping BNP supporters though and I very much doubt if they are regular attenders, Shepherds Bush not really being one of their key areas of support.



I daresay we'll be hearing from Mr Griffin how heavily edited it was.

[Harleybloke]

name='batman']I watched the programme last night and I have to say it was the funniest programme I have watched in ages. Griffin (looking like Johnny Vegas tidier brother) was subjected to a barrage that can only be described as bullying!



Griffin sat smiling away through all of this and, as he spouted his 'philosophy' of life, came across as a not very intelligent man totally out of his depth with people much more media savvy than him. The body language displayed by Bonnie Greer throughout the programme was priceless as she, and the other panel members, joined in the fun.



The laughs didn't last long though because, in the end, it became quite tedious as Griffin dodged and weaved his way through the predictable (and stage managed?) minefield before him with no real serious debating to be seen. It was all on the level of 'Well Nick, are you are racist?', 'Ha ha' comes the reply, 'of course not, I simply been misquoted'. The audience whooped and hollered.



Far from being the 'early Xmas present' described by some, this was car crash telly. Griffin did himself and his party no favours at all. Even with the questioning at this shallow level he was unable to come up with anything resembling a coherent and persuasive response.



Well done to the BBC for inviting him on. There is room on TV for a serious and heavyweight discussion with Griffin about his party and his policies but this wasn't it. It was, however, a worthwhile enterprise because it revealed that if you get past the BNP 'spin' that is to be found in their literature, there is nothing behind it except the same old right wing paranoia. It also showed that their leader does not have the oratory skills that are necessary to get his message across to the unconverted.



ps - why was there a woman sitting in the front row dressed like one of the cast of a St. Trinians film?

I think the Bat has nailed it quite well but a few points:



FIRSTLY BatBoy.....that girl dressed in the St.Trinians outfit was the best part of the show, you leave her alone............



No one watching can have been suprised, The BNP is a one issue party.



The demo outside wanted to stifle free speech - isn't that facist?



I hope David Dimbelby maintains that level of inquisition in the run up to the next election.



In any event, Bonnie Greer was the only guest I'd trust anyway!



Finally, it resolved nothing. I doubt if any of the BNP's supporters watch QT. They vote on single issues, i.e. Immigration / Radical Islam. Unless the big three parties make progress in those areas the BNP will grow.