Reply With QuotePerhaps! I don`t suppose we will ever find out who did it.Originally Posted by Steve Crook
Was it students, or potential students who vandalised it? Or was it the professional troublemakers who always seem to join in these demonstrations? I think you should delay your judgement until you know who did it
Steve
Perhaps! I don`t suppose we will ever find out who did it.
Defacing Winston Churchill's statue and setting fire to the Christmas Tree in Trafalgar Square is un-called for, but I think there is a minority of trouble makers and anarchists who may not even be students who have infiltrated this protest as a means to create havoc and destruction, Im wondering if some of the normally peaceful students are getting caught up in this? I think the trouble makers, whether they be students or outside anarchists are in a minority, it seems a shame to lump all the protesters in the same boat. The police don't seem to differentiate from what I can see. David Cameron has said on the news that the people who pelted Prince Charles' roller should be rounded up and punished! he didn't mention whether the folk who set fire to the christmas tree or defaced the statue are also to be punished. I think he got that wrong, those in charge of Prince Charles' security ought to be disciplined for having the stupidity to drive him through the area, of course he was going to be pelted with eggs etc. It would seem as far as Cameron is concerned the greatest outrage in all of this is the fact that Charles' Roller got a few dings and egg stains.....
Last edited by christoph404; 10-12-10 at 12:12 PM.
I wonder who contributes most to the Rolls; Charles or those pelting it?
Not only Cameron. I have been watching the BBC news for the past hour and that is all they are going on about.
I`m sure Charlie and Cams have moved on from it by now, but as usual the rest of us arn`t allowed to forget a near miss in security surounding our Royal family.
The Poll Tax Riots were in 1990. It's usually thought they were a significant factor in her downfall though they didn't do the Tory Party much harm once she'd gone.
Poll Tax Riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They're now saying that Charlie's security team acted in a "restrained manner" i.e. they didn't shoot anyone
Steve
They will shoot them later, in dawn raids of student digs across the country.They're now saying that Charlie's security team acted in a "restrained manner" i.e. they didn't shoot anyone
Steve
An anarchist friend of mine was always on marches, and always trying - normally suucessfully - to, as he put it, 'Keep it fluffy' (or something), the idea being that with shouting, comedy, insults, legal confrontation and simple physical presence you can achieve a lot. He was opposed by those of his own persuasion politically who wanted to "Keep it spikey", which involves pulling up railings to use as spears, for example (not a real example, I hasten to add, but you get my drift), the idea being that nothing is really achieved but there are immediate effects on the rulers - e.g, that an actual individual policeman gets a broken nose, or a posh car gets smashed up.
In my opinion, both arguments are understandable, but only the 'fluffy' argument holds water. Which is unusual for something fluffy.
As has been said, there are elements on both sides who want a bit of a fight. I would hazard a guess that the great majority on both sides would rather go home at the end of the day with nobody bleeding. The thing is, the angrier the situation has made people, the more violent the protest becomes. This is like the Poll Tax demos; a lot of people are very angry, and when the protesters are angry, they tend to 'expect' the police to try something fascistic, so any movement by the police gets a huge crowd reaction. The police on the other hand 'expect' the protesters to start up something vandalistic, so any movement by the protesters gets a huge police reaction. This is because the people in general are angry.
Of course vandalising statues and smashing windows doesn't solve the problem, but I'd rather see cars burnt and buildings damaged than people on either side hurt (if we have to choose between those two scenarios). I'm glad the Charleses saw it, and I'm glad they weren't hurt. I don't mind taxes going towards repairing the statue of Churchill, but I'd rather they went to pay for higher education for people with less money than me.
Have I finished? Thank God.
The government has done a fairly lousy job of selling these University changes. So far as I can see the charges are ramping up because the actual cuts that have been applied are to all those *Humanities* courses that many in here regularly derogate: meeja studies possibly being one. In consequnce the Univeristies (which is a hopelessly bloated sector since the Polytechnics got sniffy about their status and changed their names, leaving us with two universities in many towns that only need one) are whinging that they need more lucre to pay their own salaries.
As a consequence of those teaching cuts, the Uni's have said they need loads more money off the students (cuz the guvnorment has said no) and so the government has come up with it's new scheme. Their error has been not stressing the fact that no ex-student has to pay a bean until they are earning over �21k a year (they should index-link that) as opposed to about �15k under Labour last time round.
All of this nonsense about *cuts* is really all about moving debts and liabilities around - like much of the world nowadays, nobody has any money of their own, they just borrow from Peter to pay Paul. The student leaders are doing their best but they bleat about education being a right and not a privilege, which it patently isn't. It is a privilege and they would do well to remember how lucky they are in this country. They also bleat about how *rich* people should pay their taxes, but say that once they are earning over �21k they shouldn't have to do so themselves.
Thery're a bunch of self-centred young tossers.... quite literally if there are any loose objects to hand. At least in '68 they were fighting in the streets to stop a crazy war. Afghanistan rolls on with nary a tweet about it.
The next time I read about fascist violence on the streets I will think of over-pampered lefties pissing on our parliament.
Edited as I'm repeating stuff!
That's not stopping me or anybody else.
The only figure I can find ffor average salaries in the UK for 2010 is from the Daily Hate so I don't trust it - it claims the average to be c�25000. I'm not quite sure why someone earning �4000 less than the average should be expected to pay back for the privilege of an education that has put him or her in that position - while Osborne the tax dodger is employing accountants to minimise his contribution to the national kitty.
The only good thing to come out of this fiasco is that it has removed all hope of anyone on the progressive left ever contemplating voting for them again.
Last edited by Fellwanderer; 10-12-10 at 02:40 PM.
I daresay all the current ex-students who are earning �16k at the moment feel a bit miffed too.....
They must be a very grey area now? Can they stop paying now and only begin again once they reach the heady heights of �21k?
Given the way the Inland revenue is these days, I wonder if anyone with their wits about them is paying anything at all..... My young daughter who earns around �10k a year and took on extra work in a second job last year (told the authorities via PAYE and so forth) now has an *extra* tax bill for over �500. Just in time for Xmas. Perhaps she should have taken out a student loan.
Everything is relative I guess but presumably we can keep excusing our own greedy behaviour on the basis of what other scumbags do, until the kingdom comes.
Think the means-tested EMA has been abolished making life harder for those from poorer families.
Interview with Michael Gove | Education | The Guardian
"Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping the EMA. I have never said this. We won't."
A shower of unprincipled politicians, just like the last lot.
I was getting them muddled up with the Brixton and Toxteth riots in 1981.
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Toxteth_riots
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton_riot_(1981)
Last edited by batman; 10-12-10 at 03:34 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4ke34dKWo
Remember going on a few marches back in the 70's & 80's....mostly Anti-Thatcher stuff & once marched through Cheltenham at the unions behest against the GCHQ anti-union laws....A certain Mr Blair was also there......
Interestingly I have London friends who have bought some land down this way, in the belief that one day it won't be safe in London and that they may be better off tucked away in the country......
All I can say is dont watch....."Children of Men"............scary stuff......
PS...Well done Sarge for getting back to 3,000 posts......again.............why ...thank you Mr Levine....
Last edited by Sgt Sunshine; 10-12-10 at 04:11 PM.
The students in here seemed to not think much of it:
Correct. That's what pisses me off about it. EMA is handed out so liberally to wasters who only have to turn up and pretend they give a ****.
I know full well there are kids who deserve it and spend it wisely, but I don't care. It's still being massively wasted on kids who don't deserve it. This is the college's fault though. They are desperate for students to finish their courses in order to improve the college statistics and receive more funding.
If I had my way I'd enforce all tutors to only sign off a kids EMA payment if they show a good level of effort and consistently hand assignments in before the deadline. Just turning up for the register shouldn't be enough.
EMA bonuses to be scrapped from 2011 - but income threshold to be raised - Page 8 - The Student Room
This must be what somebody suggested my daughter apply for when she was still at College. It asked so many intrusive questions I told her I'd rather give her the �30 myself. I'm on the average wage apparently, so of course I can afford it.....
I was on one of the first "Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher" demos when she was Education Secretary and stopped the issuing of free milk to junior school children. It's all her fault that they aren't strong enough to stand up for long any more
Steve
We'll soon cut that back down to sizePS...Well done Sarge for getting back to 3,000 posts......again.............why ...thank you Mr Levine....
Steve
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