Panic on the streets of London

[DB7]

The students in here seemed to not think much of it:
:

Wow, maybe you're right...

[Sgt Sunshine]

I was on one of the first "Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher" demos when she was Education Secretary and stopped the issuing of free milk to junior school children. It's all her fault that they aren't strong enough to stand up for long any more

Steve

I remember those little bottles of milk.......at playtime....
Happy days.....

[alan gowdy]

Was it students, or potential students who vandalised it? Or was it the professional troublemakers who always seem to join in these demonstrations? I think you should delay your judgement until you know who did it

Steve

If you organise a protest you are - or should be - responsible for the consequences. I wonder how many viewers watching the idiotic clowning and foul mouthed aggression displayed by protesters on the television news last night felt any sympathy for them. I imagine that it seriously damaged their cause.

[Steve Crook]

If you organise a protest you are - or should be - responsible for the consequences.

If you organise a government you are, or should be, responsible for the consequences

But in neither case can the people who organised it really be expected to be responsible for everyone who is there

Steve

[wellendcanons]

I'm surprised anyone could ever think this Government were ever credible in the first place. The writing has always been on the wall for me. First there's Cameron just carrying on in the usual Tory fashion, taking everything worthwhile away from the working classes, including education, encouraging privatization, whilst disbanding the NHS and the welfare state. "Let's keep them down so we can rule and prosper." Then there's Clegg who isn't bothered about selling the Lib Dems out because he's a tory and ultimitely knows his long-term future is with them. The Lib Dems are finished, as we know. But then, we all knew it was coming, didn't we?

Nobody likes violence. I certainly don't. But this is a highly provocative issue and though I fully accept there may well have been a few angry protestors intent from the off to cause trouble, there may too have been genuinely good people who lost it in the heat of the moment. I fully accept that these students have every right to be angry and upset by a totally insensative Government whose only intent is to take the the right away from the working man to afford education. And although violence may not be the answer it's never done the French any harm. It sickens me to the very heart that's all the media can focus on instead of dealing with what is the real issue. It shouldn't have happened, but compared to the cold, planned and devious methods of call me Dave and Nick, it doesn't even begin to compare on any scale. Let's get this matter in perspective.

This Govenrment didn't even deserve to get this chance to fiancially cripple students because they weren't even democratically elected in the first place. I now think we need another General Election before these two charlatans posing as leaders in Government cause any further long-term damage.

wec

[alan gowdy]

If you organise a government you are, or should be, responsible for the consequences

But in neither case can the people who organised it really be expected to be responsible for everyone who is there

Steve

I'm reminded - just a little - of the many instances when the IRA would plant a bomb and then say the security forces were to blame for the deaths and injuries because they didn't clear the streets quickly enough.
Organising a march in the knowledge that undesirable elements are very likely to tag along and subvert the event (because they did a week or two ago) makes the organisers responsible for the consequences in my eyes.

[CaptainWaggett]

I'm surprised anyone could ever think this Government were ever credible in the first place. The writing has always been on the wall for me. First there's Cameron just carrying on in the usual Tory fashion, taking everything worthwhile away from the working classes, including education, encouraging privatization, whilst disbanding the NHS and the welfare state. "Let's keep them down so we can rule and prosper." Then there's Clegg who isn't bothered about selling the Lib Dems out because he's a tory and ultimitely knows his long-term future is with them. The Lib Dems are finished, as we know. But then, we all knew it was coming, didn't we?

Nobody likes violence. I certainly don't. But this is a highly provocative issue and though I fully accept there may well have been a few angry protestors intent from the off to cause trouble, there may too have been genuinely good people who lost it in the heat of the moment. I fully accept that these students have every right to be angry and upset by a totally insensative Government whose only intent is to take the the right away from the working man to afford education. And although violence may not be the answer it's never done the French any harm. It sickens me to the very heart that's all the media can focus on instead of dealing with what is the real issue. It shouldn't have happened, but compared to the cold, planned and devious methods of call me Dave and Nick, it doesn't even begin to compare on any scale. Let's get this matter in perspective.

This Govenrment didn't even deserve to get this chance to fiancially cripple students because they weren't even democratically elected in the first place. I now think we need another General Election before these two charlatans posing as leaders in Government cause any further long-term damage.

wec

[wellendcanons]

Cheers Captain.

wec

[Moor Larkin]

Wow, maybe you're right...

I have no idea whether I am right any more than I have any idea that you are wrong, but one nice thing about the internet is that you can see what real people are actually saying to one another rather than what minority interest groups tell us they are saying and what those pressure groups tell the meeja we want or what we don't want. The dilemma of any democracy is that the majority are largely ruled by the lobbying of minority pressure groups.

Compare and contrast the intelligence of the wiki campaign which targets the real levers of power - the movement of money - and the inane stomping and smashing in the streets carried out by the supposedly educated.

It's also interesting how everyone wants consensus politics until it happens....

If everyone had voted Liberal you would by now have a cancelled Trident and free University places but because they didn't.... we have delayed Trident and new University arrangements. What do the students say? They will never vote Liberal again. This means they will next get Labour or Tory - both of whom have Policy to charge students for University and build more Tridents... Thick? Maybe. Clever. Not.

[Steve Crook]

I'm reminded - just a little - of the many instances when the IRA would plant a bomb and then say the security forces were to blame for the deaths and injuries because they didn't clear the streets quickly enough.
Organising a march in the knowledge that undesirable elements are very likely to tag along and subvert the event (because they did a week or two ago) makes the organisers responsible for the consequences in my eyes.

So you don't think that anyone should ever be allowed to protest against anything?
We had already established in the preceding posts that there's always a tiny minority element that tags along on any protest or demonstration and is only there to cause trouble

Steve

[Steve Crook]

Compare and contrast the intelligence of the wiki campaign which targets the real levers of power - the movement of money - and the inane stomping and smashing in the streets carried out by the supposedly educated.

Surely most of the protesters were (or should have been) those that were still waiting to get a University education

Steve

[DB7]

Compare and contrast the intelligence of the wiki campaign which targets the real levers of power - the movement of money - and the inane stomping and smashing in the streets carried out by the supposedly educated.

The boys in blue do a fine job and I see no need to denigrate their intelligence.

[Rick C]

There are some issues that never seem to be discussed in 'the media' which I am unclear about. So, can someone enlighten me about a few things please? What is the role of the universities in this? Are the universities compelled to charge these fees, or do they have a choice? Also, have the students included in their protests the fact that Scottish and Welsh students don't have to pay them?

I personally do not have a problem with students making a contribution to paying their fees, but �9000 a year is a ridiculous amount. I may be stupid here but surely a compromise position would be for the education authorities of all UK based students to collect a significantly reduced fee per year from them each student (using the current system) and then dole it out ot the universities.

I was willing to give the coalition a chance ...... but they seem determined to cock it up at almost every opportunity. Cameron must be really happy that Nick Clegg is around to take most of the flak. I can't see the Lib Dems recovering from this, especially if Clegg remains leader. It looks like we may be headed down the road of having a 'real' two party state and, as most of the time these days it's difficult to tell which is which, where will that leave us?

Oh yes, you can see Cameron chose this subject to divide the Liberals as quickly as possible after the General Election in May. They were a sitting target like a duck stuck on the fairground rifle range travolater with nowhere to go due to the pre-election pledge. This 'divide and rule' strategy has now divorced the student community from the Lib-Dems as it was meant to do. The Labour Party is the king with no clothes since it was Blair who brought in the fees system on Day 1 after the General Election of 1997. ....

[Rowdon]

So you don't think that anyone should ever be allowed to protest against anything?

I'm not defending alan gowdy, but he didn't say people should not be allowed to protest, only that if you protest knowing there might be trouble, it's your fault if there is. I disagree completely with what he said, but he didn't say we shouldn't be allowed to.

[Arfur Teacake]

I was getting worried a bit worried about the Labour voter, during the Labour Government they took every piece of crap the government threw at them "yes Mr Blair, no Mr Blair three bags full Mr Blair" (including the original introduction of the student fees) . Even the Iraq War demonstrations were like a pregnant mother's tea party.Council tax rising to astronomic amounts during the Labour Government and nobody said a word, yet the poll tax during the Tories had brought about rebellion.
Then of course we had an unelected, sour puss, manic depressive running the country who treated the grass roots Labour voter with utter contempt while his cronies were screwing the country for as much wonga as they could write on their expense sheets... and once again nobody did a thing.


Whoever sold the 'nice party' lovely fluffy Labour and the 'nasty party' wicked witch Tories pulled off the biggest mass hallucination in modern history.

Anyway now the Tories are back, I wonder if we will get that creative surge we had in the 1980s when lefty luvvies like Paul Weller wrote great songs about how terrible things were from the comfort of the Woking mansion he bought with proceeds?

[Fellwanderer]

Think the means-tested EMA has been abolished making life harder for those from poorer families.

Interview with Michael Gove | Education | The Guardian
"Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping the EMA. I have never said this. We won't."

A shower of unprincipled politicians, just like the last lot.

Be fair to the tories - con is built into their DNA so we should all expect them to be unprincipled and not be surprised when they are.

[DB7]

Be fair to the tories - con is built into their DNA so we should all expect them to be unprincipled and not be surprised when they are.

I've no beef with them as I know what's coming; run the country into the ground and then the next lot will have to invest in the public services.

The Libs seems to be on a path to self-destruction and Cameron and co must be struggling to believe their luck. They dream up some cuts and then leave it to Cleggy, Alexander and Cable to sell it to the public. Masterstroke. I've no idea who half the Tory cabinet is as they're never wheeled out.

[Moor Larkin]

I was getting worried a bit worried about the Labour voter, during the Labour Government they took every piece of crap the government threw at them "yes Mr Blair, no Mr Blair three bags full Mr Blair" (including the original introduction of the student fees) . Even the Iraq War demonstrations were like a pregnant mother's tea party.Council tax rising to astronomic amounts during the Labour Government and nobody said a word, yet the poll tax during the Tories had brought about rebellion.

It did strike me that the Poll tax and the current Students Fee bed-wetting have one big thing in common. They both seem to involve young people being told that mummy and daddy tax-payer won't pay for Nanny State to look after them anymore.

Time to spit the dummy both times it seems.

As an aside, I keep visualising the current spivvy-looking students-union leader growing older, and developing an orange hue....

[Arfur Teacake]

It did strike me that the Poll tax and the current Students Fee bed-wetting have one big thing in common. They both seem to involve young people being told that mummy and daddy tax-payer won't pay for Nanny State to look after them anymore.

yes they would rather a factory worker would pay for their education through tax, then when said factory worker waits years to get his promotion, finds it has been taken by someone 'with a degree' who does not know two hoots about the job

Time to spit the dummy both times it seems.

As an aside, I keep visualising the current spivvy-looking students-union leader growing older, and developing an orange hue....

Yes he was a big Mugabe fan at one time wasnt he? wanted 'the evil' Rhodesia brought to its knees.
Slightly unrecognisable from that as today he looks like the cat that has eaten all the cream. Probably all those years in hiding in the EU office corridors with Neil, Glennys and all the family.

[wellendcanons]

Be fair to the tories - con is built into their DNA so we should all expect them to be unprincipled and not be surprised when they are.

That's very true. And call me Nick joined so he can have his slice of the cake and make that unprincipled union even stronger. They're not called the Con Dem party for nothing!

wec