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Thread: The Dam Busters

  1. #201
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christoph404 View Post
    Im not so sure about that Steve, certainly there was a naivety about using the word ,I just think the concept of offensive racism being associate with certain terms or words had not been established or recognised in those days.In the film Zulu, Bromhead as played by Michael Caine refers to " cowardly blacks" , and cringingly uses the term "fuzzy wuzzies".
    There certainly was a naivety about the use of the word. But I doubt that most people who called their black cat or dog "Nigger" did so because they thought it was like a black person.

    But nowadays the word seems to be the worst swear word that can be used in America - when it's used by a white person, whatever it's actually referring to. The meaning of and the attitude to the word has changed drastically in the last decade or so.

    As such, there is no need to have audiences distracted and annoyed by something that is nothing to do with the story being told in this film. They should just drop the name. Either don't mention the dog's name or call it something totally different.

    Steve

  2. #202
    Senior Member Country: UK RogerThornhill's Avatar
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    Whoever takes the part of Gibson maybe he could whisper "Don't mention the N word, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it"

  3. #203
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christoph404 View Post
    modern audiences would find it difficult to relate to our heroes indulging in a form of casual/ naive racism which was possibly the norm for that era, I think the name of the dog speaks volumes about the attitudes of the time, so by changing the name of the dog the story can conveniently just not address those issues,
    Indeed, if they are to truly update the film then issues of WWII 'terror bombing', the human cost (both in flying crew and death toll of forced labor) and the strategic outcome (not very effective) should be addressed - but wont be. An Oliver Stone could probably make a thought-provoking film but I expect this to be helmed by jobbing director (just checked, it's a debut director). Brave aircrew and an interesting technical exercise but overall I'm not sure it was worth the cost.

  4. #204
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DB7 View Post
    Indeed, if they are to truly update the film then issues of WWII 'terror bombing', the human cost (both in flying crew and death toll of forced labor) and the strategic outcome (not very effective) should be addressed - but wont be. An Oliver Stone could probably make a thought-provoking film but I expect this to be helmed by jobbing director (just checked, it's a debut director). Brave aircrew and an interesting technical exercise but overall I'm not sure it was worth the cost.
    They should also address the true value of the raid to the war effort. It was a great propaganda coup and a very brave thing to do by some extraordinary airmen, but didn't actually disrupt production in the Ruhr all that much, only for a few months. It also killed a lot of civilians, including a lot of Allied PoWs who were working in the area

    Steve

  5. #205
    Senior Member Country: England Santonix's Avatar
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    I think it was one the most daring raids of the war. It was a much needed morale booster during a very dark period in our history and went down well in the U.S.A. I think it was almost a pivotal moment in the war, as from then on things began to improve for us. It also made the Germans divert arms and men to set up heavy defenses around other strategic targets they had previously believed to be untouchable. The dams were repaired within a few months, but the lakes took some time to refill to their former levels. The loss of life in these situations is always to be deeply regretted.

    It also gave us a wonderful film.

  6. #206
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santonix View Post
    I think it was one the most daring raids of the war. It was a much needed morale booster during a very dark period in our history and went down well in the U.S.A. I think it was almost a pivotal moment in the war, as from then on things began to improve for us. It also made the Germans divert arms and men to set up heavy defenses around other strategic targets they had previously believed to be untouchable. The dams were repaired within a few months, but the lakes took some time to refill to their former levels. The loss of life in these situations is always to be deeply regretted.

    It also gave us a wonderful film.
    Pearl Harbour had already taken place and the US had declared war. By this time the tide was already turning for Germany on the Eastern Front and in North Africa and plans were underway for an allied landing. The St Nazaire raid was similarly brave, probably bonkers brave, but did at least achieve its goal despite a desperate loss of life.

  7. #207
    Senior Member moonfleet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Put it in the context of the 1940s. It was common to call black dogs or cats "Nigger" and it (usually) had nothing to do with the modern usage or any direct connection to black people. Probably derived from the French n�gre (Negro) it is just a reference to the animal's colour, nothing else.

    Steve
    In french, the use of n�gre or negro is pejorative and offensive, it's an heritage trademark from colonialism





    La Revue n�gre, affiche de Paul Colin,
    pour un spectacle musical � Paris en 1925.
    Last edited by moonfleet; 12-06-11 at 10:36 PM.

  8. #208
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonfleet View Post
    In french, the use of n�gre or negro is pejorative and offensive, it's an heritage trademark from colonialism
    It is now, but was it meant as an offensive word when those events were put on? Josephine Baker was very popular in France



    Josephine Baker in Banana Skirt from the Folies Berg�re production "Un Vent de Folie"

    Steve

  9. #209
    Senior Member Country: England paul kersey's Avatar
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    On a different slant, does anybody have any comments on the choice of Stephen Fry as screenwriter?. Is he a big name in the States ?. I would have chosen Anthony Horrowitz, due to his superb work on "Foyles War".

  10. #210
    Senior Member moonfleet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    It is now, but was it meant as an offensive word when those events were put on?

    Steve
    I think that when in times of colonialism the word had in itself (and in the mind of the white civilisated) an offensive and pejorative meaning too, was'nt it to point a so called "sub-human category" ??!!....

    The Revue N�gre with Jos�phine Baker exploited the "exotic" image

    Another french meaning of n�gre is used for a ghost writer

  11. #211
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonfleet View Post
    I think that when in times of colonialism the word had in itself (and in the mind of the white civilisated) an offensive and pejorative meaning too, was'nt it to point a so called "sub-human category" ??!!....
    There is another n-word that was more offensive & pejorative nowadays. Negro is the polite version that nobody is supposed to find offensive (or not in the 1940s)

    The Revue N�gre with Jos�phine Baker exploited the "exotic" image
    Or was it Josephine exploiting her audience?

    That's why I would never go to a lap dancing club. i don't like to see people being sexually exploited - like the poor men in the audience

    Steve

  12. #212
    Senior Member Country: England
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    I have just seen the BFI's restored print of THE GREAT WHITE SILENCE, the film of Captain Scott's ill-fated expedition to the South Pole. The expedition ship, The Terra Nova, had a black ship's cat called - you've guessed it - Nigger. It appears in a couple of scenes. I think it is quite commendable that the BFI, that epitome of political correctness, has made no attempt to disguise this fact.

  13. #213
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    Any news about the development of the remake?
    Ta Ta
    Marky B

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