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Thread: The Dam Busters

  1. #121
    Senior Member Country: UK Freddy's Avatar
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    I'm sure I watched a version the other week where everyone called the dog 'Boy', just as Patrick McGoohan did. It seemed to work quite well and made a modicum of sense.



    How odd that they should leave the dog as

    -. * .. * --. * --. * . * .-.

    but change the code-word.........



    I wonder how many versions are out there? They could do a boxed set of all the variations........



    If this is the same version was the ending changed as well? The original has Richard Todd walking a small way and then turning right into a building to write the letters. But in this one they let him walk straight on into the distance. I seem to remember him actually saying in an interview that that was the only thing in the original he would have changed. It seems that the backroom boys carried out his wish.



    regards



    Freddy

  2. #122
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    Thanks, Cooleyn, for reminding us what a wonderful, powerful and deeply moving e4xperience it is, to see The Dambusters on the big screen.



    I've been lucky enough to see a few Lancaster flights, and the deep-throated roar of those mighty engines sends a tingle down my spine. I have been in the immediate post-war successor to the Lancaster, the Avro Shackleton. When you see the environment the crew worked in, their achievement is all the more remarkable.



    I remember seeing a programme on the Shackleton - part of the Perpetual Motion series, where it was memorably described as 10,000 rivets flying in close formation!



    I have read Guy Gibson's biography, "Enemy Coast Ahead", published posthumosly in 1946, and it captures the intensity and strain of flying night after night, very memorably. I think Richard Todd's portrayal was superb. Gibson was an aloof self-contained man, who was utterly driven, and Todd capyures this superbly.

  3. #123
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    I've been lucky enough to see a few Lancaster flights, and the deep-throated roar of those mighty engines sends a tingle down my spine. I have been in the immediate post-war successor to the Lancaster, the Avro Shackleton. When you see the environment the crew worked in, their achievement is all the more remarkable.



    I remember seeing a programme on the Shackleton - part of the Perpetual Motion series, where it was memorably described as 10,000 rivets flying in close formation!



    I have read Guy Gibson's biography, "Enemy Coast Ahead", published posthumosly in 1946, and it captures the intensity and strain of flying night after night, very memorably. I think Richard Todd's portrayal was superb.
    Excellent post! I thought the Shackleton pre-dated the Lancaster by a few weeks ...but at my age the memory dims.. please correct me if I'm wrong.



    Perhaps Richard Todd's finest performance!!

  4. #124
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    I've been lucky enough to see a few Lancaster flights, and the deep-throated roar of those mighty engines sends a tingle down my spine. I have been in the immediate post-war successor to the Lancaster, the Avro Shackleton. When you see the environment the crew worked in, their achievement is all the more remarkable.



    I remember seeing a programme on the Shackleton - part of the Perpetual Motion series, where it was memorably described as 10,000 rivets flying in close formation!
    I used to live on the Morayshire coast, and during the eighties, when the Shak was still flying regularly over us, it was an incredible experience to be lying in bed late at night and to hear a Shack slowly approaching from out at sea.



    The sound slowly grew and grew, until the aircraft flew over the town, and the doppler effect deepened the gorgeous engine note as it flew past.



    Can't say my wife enjoyed it too much in the early hours of the morning though, but hey, we were young, and once she was awake I had other reasons to thank those Shackleton crews.



    I went to the open day at Lossie on the day they retired the Shaks, and we got to crawl around inside, sit in the pilots seat, etc. The overwhelming impression was of the smell of a real old (but working) piston aircraft; all cramped, crowded and lovely, and it gave an idea of what a Lancaster must have felt like.



    In the ATC in the seventies, we were lucky enough to go on a long flight on a Vickers Varsity from Finningley - again a lovely old machine that droned away all day - lovely.



    Happy days

  5. #125
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    I went to the open day at Lossie on the day they retired the Shaks, and we got to crawl around inside, sit in the pilots seat, etc. The overwhelming impression was of the smell of a real old (but working) piston aircraft; all cramped, crowded and lovely, and it gave an idea of what a Lancaster must have felt like.



    In the ATC in the seventies, we were lucky enough to go on a long flight on a Vickers Varsity from Finningley - again a lovely old machine that droned away all day - lovely.



    Happy days
    I was in the RAF section of the school CCF back in the 70's, and one summer camp we ended up RAF Kinloss....lots were drawn for the joyrides on offer - in the Nimrod MR1's....but I lost out....however, on the fourth day we were coached to Lossie too, then a Jaguar and Shackleton base, there was a 'Lucky loser' draw and four of us went on AEW patrols in the Shacks....THE NOISE!! CRAMPED!! The old quote of a Shackleton being ten thousand rivets flying in close formation...I don't think we were chuted up, just as well as I would never have got over the main spar box, which if you remember cuts through the fuselage and makes for a great obstacle if you're getting out in a hurry....but being brought up on The Dambusters, it was an experience I would never have missed for the world. A bit more exciting than the Chipmunks we normally got to fly...

    For the record, the genealogy of the Shack is as follows. First came the twin engined Manchester....a death trap by all accounts, underpowered. The Lancaster was basically a stop-gap to use spare Manchester fuselages, going to Merlin engines (Instead of Vultures IIRC) and four at that, with extended wings and modified tail. The York was the passenger/cargo version. Late in the War, the Lincoln was developed, basically a Lancaster with upgraded Merlin engines and new larger wings. The civilian version of the Lincoln, same wings but a pressurised cabin, was the Tudor. The Shackleton was a Lincoln with Griffon engines powering contra-rotating props, and had a maritime reconnaissance and Airborne Early Warning variants....and these lasted well into the eighties, forty-odd years after the poor old Manchester.

  6. #126
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    According to Amazon there is a biog on him due out on the 20th September.Curiously though it is 196 pages.What this could mean is that it is a scissors and paste job rather than a full scale biog.This of course could be due to the fact that most of the people who knew him have passed on.incidentally the synopsis refers to "questionable private life" so clearly he was not quite the stright laced individual that he appears to be in the film.
    There was a very good biography of Gibson by Richard Morris, 300+ pages, published in 1994 which is well worth getting your hands on. It's out of print now, but copies do turn up on ebay, which is where I got mine. It describes a young man with very human strengths and failings, not just the celluloid hero from the screen. As for Gibson's private life, everyone has some skeletons in their cupboards, don't they?

  7. #127
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    I'm gutted to learn that I have somehow managed to miss the experience of seeing the Dambusters on a genuinely big screen and was poised to buy a DVD copy in HMV today but was wondering if anyone knows whether there are any plans to release a special edition version on DVD in the near future - I would rather buy the definitive version from day 1 even if it means waiting.



    Congratulations to all those who saw this wonderful film as it should be seen, I have a pretty decent home cinema system but the visuals can't compete with the local Odeon.



    Best regards,



    Jonathan

  8. #128
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    Hello ~ I'm new to this Forum so please bear with me while I find my way around!



    I'm organising a very special and unique charity event that might appeal to Richard Todd/Dambusters fans. The event is 'An Evening with Richard Todd~star of the stage and screen' which is being held at Grimsthorpe Castle near Bourne, Lincolnshire on Saturday, October 6th 2007 commencing at 6.30pm to support the National Deaf Children's Society. Richard will be speaking to an audience about his fascinating life and career and he will be hosting a questions and answers session. Colin Young, a BBC TV antique expert(Bargain Hunt) will be conducting an auction of prizes and Ruth Montgomery, an internationally acclaimed flautist will be performing a selection of Richard's favourite pieces of music. The tickets are �35 each and includes Champagne, drinks and canapes. The dress code is lounge suit.



    Tickets are strictly limited and MUST be purchased in advance. For more details or to purchase tickets, please contact me as soon as possible.

  9. #129
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    They are showing a new digitized version of "The Dambusters" at my local multipex next Monday Dec 10th. As it's a 'Cineworld' it's likley they'll be showing it at other multiplexes in the group.



    Roll on Monday, can't wait to see it on the big screen. last time would have been in the 1950's but this time I won't be running out of the cinema with my arms outstreched and singing dah dah dah dah dadaddadah

  10. #130
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    I think that Jim and others are right, the raid itself did not decide the outcome of the war in material terms, but, the psychological value ranks with the RAF raid on Gestapo headquarters

    in Holland or Mosquitoes appearing overhead as Goering made a public speech or in modern terms, a cruise missile turning right at the crossroads before proceeding for half a mile and then entering middle window 3rd floor. Quite devastating to enemy moral.

  11. #131
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    I've joined this forum to express my sheer delight at finally seeing my all-time favourite war movie - The Dam Busters - on the big screen again last night at Cineworld in Aberdeen, an event which was - to the amazement of the management - packed to capacity.

    Having watched it repeatedly since I was a child, the experience of seeing (and hearing) it up there was like seeing it for the first time. Being in the second row, the effect of seeing REAL Lancasters thundering towards the screen at genuinely low level was simply awesome, and the sound of those Merlin engines through a cinema sound system was incredible.

    Interesting point to make, though . . . .

    The cinema was mostly full of youngsters, and I had expected them to denigrate the movie and perhaps snigger (HEY! A new and politically-correct name for Gibson's dog, perhaps?) at a lot of it, especially the special effects - but not a bit of it.



    These young people - many who obviously had never seen the film before, laughed at the parts that we may have forgotten were amusing ("my 'ens lay premature eggs that fall off the perch and mess up the floor") and were genuinely awed by the sight and sounds.



    What really struck me, however, was their reaction during the classic scene near the end, when the camera silently pans through the empty rooms of the missing aircrews - you could have heard a pin drop in the cinema.



    Another interesting fact was that the Lancasters cavorting at low level over the lakes in the movie were obviously real and were obviously REALLY flying that low. There is no amount of cgi (am I wrong?) that could replicate such an incredible sight, especially when the bombers filled the screen and almost flew right out of it.



    So, I say praise God that such an awesome, powerful, poignant, magnificent movie masterpiece was once again shown where it truly belongs - on the big screen, and thanks also to all those youngsters in the cinema in Aberdeen, who showed respect for a legend and who, I really believe, became fans of the movie too.
    Yes, I agree a really great film and I would like to mention two of the most moving scenes.

    The first being the airmen on the ground, at dusk, just before take of and the second is the picture of the three planes flying over Lincoln Cathedral - quite biblical and tear jerking.



    I would also mention too, probably one of the finest 'on the ground sequences of bomber command' must be most parts of 'Appointment in London'. Totally realistic and with Sam Kidd as well!

  12. #132
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    Just as an aside and in response to Christine who was looking for a recommendation for a Harris book to read, may I suggest "Enemy Coast Ahead" written by Guy Gibson shortly before he was killed in action? It gives his account of the Dams' raid amongst other interesting stuff and is a good read.
    When it comes to great books about the WW2 bombing campaign, might I venture to suggest that the daddy of them all (in fiction terms) is the incomparable masterpiece "Bomber" by Len Deighton



    What really engages about this book is that it portrays all sides of what was, ultimately, a great tragedy of humanity - and takes no sides either - whilst being a totally rivetting read from cover to cover.



    Almost all of the characters, events and aspects are so well portrayed, including the fictional small town of Altgarten, which finds itself on the receiving end of a "main force" raid which hit the wrong town. Highly emotive stuff - brilliantly written.



    I have read it many, many times, and would rank it as possibly "THE GREATEST WAR MOVIE NEVER MADE" (your thoughts on that subject??)



    But of course, that might be because there were no Americans in it, although on the flip side of the coin, Len Deighton's superb "Goodbye Mickey Mouse" was all about the USAAF in England, and no film was made of it (although the denouement shock-effect was, in my opinion, effectively stolen by "Saving Private Ryan")



    Incidentally, I've just read in a new Max Hastings book, that movie star Paul Newman was a radioman on an Avenger Torpedo bomber, who narrowly avoided being a kamikaze victim on the carrier USS Bunker Hill at Okinawa.



    So glad I joined this forum, by the way - it allows me to ramble idiotically at will.




  13. #133
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    Hello all,



    I have read this entire thread with both trepidation and confusion; Firstly no one has the right to change anything in a re-make, we simply haven't earned the honour.

    Our forefathers fought and spilled blood in order for us to live the way we do today, although I hasten to add I think we are trashing it (You only have to look at the madness of interrupting the recent games flame ). Whether it is 'unpleasant' to the ethic minorities or not is completely irrelevant, facts are facts, the film portrayed a REAL event to which most of us (if not all) could simply not replicate today under those same conditions. My grandfather was a navigator on the Tirpitz bombing run and when we used to talk I noticed that there was an unprecedented air of pride in what they achieved not to mention pride as (dare I say it) an ENGLISHMAN?!?



    All I seem to hear today are PC idiots and their armchair conclusions to which I might add only worsen current events (bah bah rainbow sheep indeed). I am ashamed to be English, to think that we as a nation stood together to fight a common enemy only to hear things like the dog's name might be changed in a remake really infuriates me. It's time the English amongst others grew a backbone again and dealt with the problems at hand i.e. Get rid of the government and stop them selling our assets off! Not to mention trashing our heritage in schools, removing (or trying to remove) our Identity and Freedom, what am I saying?!? We have no FREEDOM, that's been given to the rest...lol



    As for the Dambusters; To think that a group of guys could fly at such unbelievable low levels, face flak head on whilst keeping their cool until it was time to drop the upkeep only then to find that it missed and went over..hehe (what a bummer that must have been) cannot really be described, as my grandad used to say 'You have to have been there to really describe it lad) although The Dambusters is as real as it gets!! One of the memorable parts in the movie is young alan from emmerdale "Any balloons sir?".



    Peace

  14. #134
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    large chunk of our population are not discouraged from learning about the sacrifices our forefathers made
    Do we really need to bend over much further in order to satisfy those who maybe a different colour? Personally the new film should reflect *everything* including the dogs name, after all it's just a name isn't it? or are we all racists? I don't agree with changing the name at all, far from it in fact, if the wing commander called his dog 'split link' or 'egg and spoon' I could understand it as both refer to cultures in a derogatory term and are plainly racist but we could go on and on about so-called racism, how you can be a racist in your own country amazes me also..lol



    Now there is a question



    Without deterring too far from the thread (and I apologise) I agree to a point that we need to accept other cultures but and this is the cruncher, what if a minority does not want to integrate? They want to remain patriotically English, this is now looked upon as bigotry! My grandfather and millions of others did not die preserving 'multiculti' or indeed the 'PC brigade', they died preserving our 'way of life' which is? Maintaining our heritage rights, our freedom, our Identity and our culture. Not for a small body of head teachers to throw it all away and allow the government 'yes ALLOW' to sell off parts of the country including British rail to the Japanese so they can lease it back to us at a ridiculous price..lol If this is the price of progress, stop the world I need to get off.



    rant over....

  15. #135
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    Do we really need to bend over much further in order to satisfy those who maybe a different colour? Personally the new film should reflect *everything* including the dogs name, after all it's just a name isn't it? or are we all racists? I don't agree with changing the name at all, far from it in fact, if the wing commander called his dog 'split link' or 'egg and spoon' I could understand it as both refer to cultures in a derogatory term and are plainly racist but we could go on and on about so-called racism, how you can be a racist in your own country amazes me also..lol



    Now there is a question



    Without deterring too far from the thread (and I apologise) I agree to a point that we need to accept other cultures but and this is the cruncher, what if a minority does not want to integrate? They want to remain patriotically English, this is now looked upon as bigotry! My grandfather and millions of others did not die preserving 'multiculti' or indeed the 'PC brigade', they died preserving our 'way of life' which is? Maintaining our heritage rights, our freedom, our Identity and our culture. Not for a small body of head teachers to throw it all away and allow the government 'yes ALLOW' to sell off parts of the country including British rail to the Japanese so they can lease it back to us at a ridiculous price..lol If this is the price of progress, stop the world I need to get off.



    rant over....
    Let's hope so. For the record, my grandparents served to protect the culture of this country too. That culture includes tolerance of race, politics and creed, and good manners both to our friends and those we don't know. None of them do I recall using the 'N' word because they were aware of its offensiveness, not just to black people but to most people of my generation. Nor would they have used it in the distant past because they were not offensive people, and served both in war and in peace alongside colleagues of many races. I have a deep and long-abiding fascination for English culture; its folk music and its films in particular. It does not make me either a racist or a bigot, in fact the opposite; as you cannot study either subject for long without realising the contribution other cultures have been making to ours for centuries, if not millennia. Those who claim to love our culture and remain intolerant of outsiders are simply ignorant of what our culture actually is.

    As for the selling off of national assets, let's all hope Thatcherism was a temporary blip in this island's history. If ever there was a leader who draped herself in the flag without knowing its meaning, it was her.

  16. #136
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    You all might be interested to hear that some bloke in Halifax, Nova Scotia, a broadcaster, I think, was hauled before the Human Rights Commission there for using the word "niggardly".



    And the damage to the German munitions industry was evidently minimal. I think Speer said he had things up and running a week after the attack.



    Ted, Ottawa

  17. #137
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    And the damage to the German munitions industry was evidently minimal. I think Speer said he had things up and running a week after the attack.



    Ted, Ottawa
    In the words of Mandy Rice-Davis, He Would Say That, Wouldn't He. The effort to get the factories up and running, and the dams rebuilt, meant that in parts of Normandy troops on D-Day were overrunning unfinished and incomplete Atlantic Wall defences...the Todt Organisation had diverted manpower to the Ruhr.

  18. #138
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    (This may appear twice) You will be amused to hear, I think, that a public figure in Halifax, Nova Scotia, was brought before a Human Rights Commission for using the word "niggardly". You think you have problems with the PC-ers



    Don't think the Dambusters affected the German war effort much. There was a third dam that wasn't attacked. Albert Speer said he had things up and running in about a week.



    Ted, Ottawa

  19. #139
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    Don't think the Dambusters affected the German war effort much. There was a third dam that wasn't attacked. Albert Speer said he had things up and running in about a week.



    Ted, Ottawa
    Goebbels might have agreed with Mandy on Speer. He said in his diary:



    "The attacks of the British bombers on the dams ... were very successful."



    Richard

  20. #140
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    Well he would, wouldn't he......
    Albert Speer .... honest as the day was long that bloke!




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