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Thread: The Dam Busters

  1. #161
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    Thanks for the reply alan gowdy was very helpful



    Ashley

  2. #162
    Senior Member Country: England cornershop15's Avatar
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  3. #163
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    I broke down and ordered "The Dam Busters" for a couple pounds (didn't want to wait for a tv showing where they might change the dog's name). Its been on my Interlibrary Loan list for awhile, but I've run out of time. Looking forward to seeing this soon.

  4. #164
    Senior Member Country: England Santonix's Avatar
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    Meanwhile the real Dog's grave at Scampton, has had it's lovely inscription removed. It's just a stone slab now with no writing on it at all.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Country: England earlb's Avatar
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    Meanwhile the real Dog's grave at Scampton, has had it's lovely inscription removed. It's just a stone slab now with no writing on it at all.
    Santonix I think that's absolutely disgusting. Political correctness or not it's part of History, like it or not. It was part of an era where it was acceptable and I find it totally unacceptable to erase it. I notice Arnie S the Hollywood actor hasn't changed his surname. Schwartz means black and N (well you get my drift).

  6. #166
    Senior Member Country: England Santonix's Avatar
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    I do get your drift and like you I was shocked. We cannot keep on changing these things from our history. What's past is past. Apologise for it if you really feel you must, but leave it alone, for those who genuinely are interested in our history and who are not constantly looking to find fault.

  7. #167
    Senior Member Country: UK CaptainWaggett's Avatar
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    Meanwhile the real Dog's grave at Scampton, has had it's lovely inscription removed. It's just a stone slab now with no writing on it at all.
    When was that? It was removed for restoration early last year. Have they taken a very long time to clean it or has it been vandalised since?

  8. #168
    Senior Member Country: United States will.15's Avatar
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    I notice Arnie S the Hollywood actor hasn't changed his surname. Schwartz means black and N (well you get my drift).
    You're wrong. Shvartze means black (entirely different word) and shvartzer (pronounced shvatza) is the Yiddish equivalent of the N word (though some claim it isn't, it is).

  9. #169
    Senior Member Country: England Santonix's Avatar
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    When was that? It was removed for restoration early last year. Have they taken a very long time to clean it or has it been vandalised since?
    It was last year. I haven't been back since I do hope it was removed for restoration only.

  10. #170
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    Meanwhile the real Dog's grave at Scampton, has had it's lovely inscription removed. It's just a stone slab now with no writing on it at all.
    Oh that's just wrong! What if it was a soldier who happened to be named John Nigger? Are you gonna take the name off his headstone just because some people might find it offensive?



    This political correctness thing does my head in. And while we're at it--the original voice of the black woman on "Tom and Jerry" was much better, "Song of the South" is a pretty good Disney movie, and some of those "offensive" Our Gang/Little Rascals shorts are wonderful.

  11. #171
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    It would all be terrible....if only it were true. The truth is that the gravestone - which no longer marked a grave because the grave is now lying under a hangar built for Vulcans in the 60's - isn't at Scampton, but close to the Dams memorial at Woodhall Spa.

    Another 'PC, isn't it terrible' story to be baseless....




  12. #172
    Senior Member Country: Scotland bruiser15's Avatar
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    Changing or censoring any film's original context at a later date because of any percieved offence caused in the present is of course wrong. The Dambusters is a great film, based in a different time from our own, when different attitudes about many things would have been regarded as the norm.



    Show The Dambusters as it was made, then discuss how the society of that time period was different.



    However I'm sure a Medical Student friend of mine at University was only joking when he woke one morning to discover that word writ large on his window,



    'A tribute to Guy Gibson's dog do you think?' he said to me with a rather weary smile,



    and somehow I don't think it was even though it's origins certainly had some thing canine about them.

  13. #173
    Senior Member Country: UK CaptainWaggett's Avatar
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    It would all be terrible....if only it were true. The truth is that the gravestone - which no longer marked a grave because the grave is now lying under a hangar built for Vulcans in the 60's - isn't at Scampton, but close to the Dams memorial at Woodhall Spa.

    Another 'PC, isn't it terrible' story to be baseless....


    Indeed. And it's the Scampton memorial that has been restored.

  14. #174
    Senior Member Country: England Santonix's Avatar
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    Well, Thanks to Penfold and Captain Waggett for clearing that one up.



    When a group visited Scampton last year we saw the gravestone had been removed and were told it probably would not be replaced, there was no mention of relocating it at Woodhall Spa.



    Pen are you sure about the original grave being built over in the 60's?

  15. #175
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    That's the belief; Scampton was heavily rebuilt for the V-Bomber force in the early 60's..... The body may have been moved, I don't know.

  16. #176
    Senior Member Country: Europe Bernardo's Avatar
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    I really believe that all the WW2 films made in or immediately after the war stand in a class of their own as many of the cast were not necessarily 'acting' and the equipment was of the period, not mock-ups or CGI. The time of making was NOW and the deaths portrayed had a meaning. I would not pick one out to put above the others.

    The cut-off could be circa 1960 when situations could become contrived, the truth fudged and the story fortified with a touch of poetic licence. For that reason The Battle of Britain, Bridge on the River Kwai, A bridge too Far are all well made films but they lack that certain something and should be considered as what they are - movies.

  17. #177
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    I agree with you bernardo - but I would put the cut-off date far earlier; something like '47. Before that, they were deeper films, tackling why we are fighting or had fought, the pricebeing paid at the home front, and so on. And you have that 'not acting' quality you mention...It's part of the reason that I think The Captive Heart is the best POW film, We Dive at Dawn the best Sub film, The Way To The Stars the best AirWar film.....they deal with the humanity. After that, they tend to be either Boys Own Tales of Derring Do, or historical reenactments...both are fine as far as they go, but more limiting. Of these latter films, The Dam Busters is probably the best, but does suffer from a problem common to the films portraying WW2....all the actors playing the flyers, soldiers or naval personnel are far too old....later, in the sixties, haircuts would be the problem.

    CGI has come such a long way, that the recreation of Dam's Raid, etc, would be far more accurate than in the original film, we just need to find a twentysomething-looking actor to play Gibson. James McAvoy ???? If they're quick...

  18. #178
    Senior Member Country: UK CaptainWaggett's Avatar
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    I agree with you bernardo - but I would put the cut-off date far earlier; something like '47. Before that, they were deeper films, tackling why we are fighting or had fought, the pricebeing paid at the home front, and so on. And you have that 'not acting' quality you mention...It's part of the reason that I think The Captive Heart is the best POW film, We Dive at Dawn the best Sub film, The Way To The Stars the best AirWar film.
    Wouldn't disagree with any of that . There's a huge difference between 1940s warfilms (inlcuding the little clutch made immediately after the was eg Frieda and The Captive Heart) and 1950s war films - far greater that than the difference between 1950s and 1960s films. Mostly in that the war as portrayed in the 1940s involved women (even in a POW film) and the working classes. Which I understand it did in Real Life though not so much in the cinema between c1947 and the 1980s.

  19. #179
    Senior Member Country: Europe Bernardo's Avatar
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    Y'know I just wonder if it is because they were made in glorious monochrome that I love them so much. Of course you were correct on the timing, I just wanted to slip a couple of 1950's efforts in there.

  20. #180
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    Personally for the remake I think they should leave the dog's name as it was and at the start of the film just put a grovelling apology to anyone who might be offended. It would also give them the chance to leave before they were offended. There could also be an apology for the racism shown by there being no black or other ethnic minorities on the squadron.

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