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  1. #1
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    N/A



    [ 06. August 2004, 19:19: Message edited by: DB7 ]

  2. #2
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    That's what i was thinking DB7,good o'l right to bear arms machine gun totting blast everything in sight Chuck Heston.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    I've no real time for either. Moore has a similar confrontational style to that of ITV's Roger Cook (and I often wanted the crooks to thump him ). It's not really 'documentary' but carefully edited polemic from an entertainer rather thnan journalist.

  4. #4
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    DB7:

    I've no real time for either. Moore has a similar confrontational style to that of ITV's Roger Cook (and I often wanted the crooks to thump him ). It's not really 'documentary' but carefully edited polemic from an entertainer rather thnan journalist.
    I couldn't agree Moore.

    cheers Ollie.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Country: UK Freddy's Avatar
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    Haven't seen the "filmfaction" yet but at least it gets people talking!

    regards

    Freddy

    Chaste, she's been chased be everyone

  6. #6
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain
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    Moore aims his message at a quintessentally American audience who probably wouldn't respond to the likes of John Pilger or the late Paul Foot.In F 9/11 and his book *Dude, Where's My Country* he makes his point in a populist, blunt style. A rabble-rouser,sure, but he's on the side of the angels.

  7. #7
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    ollie:

    That's what i was thinking DB7,good o'l right to bear arms machine gun totting blast everything in sight Chuck Heston.
    I came upon a web site of the NRA (National Rifle Association) quite by accident and old Chuck was there, brandishing his weapon! It seems that it goes back to the Pilgrim Fathers' times, when they needed to protect themselves, etc.

  8. #8
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    IM:

    [snip]

    I came upon a web site of the NRA (National Rifle Association) quite by accident and old Chuck was there, brandishing his weapon! It seems that it goes back to the Pilgrim Fathers' times, when they needed to protect themselves, etc.
    Needed to? Or just wanted to?

    I thought one of the most powerful parts of Bowling for Columbine was the cartoon in the middle that showed the Americans as being terrified of everything and so shooting everything in sight.



    The 2nd amendment to the constitution does say that Americans have the right to keep and bear arms - but that's only to maintain a militia. It doesn't say anything about keeping, bearing or using arms for any other reason.



    Now I think I'd better duck for cover for a while :)



    Steve

  9. #9
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    I'm glad i'm not a Duck!!

    cheers Ollie.

  10. #10
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    I'm glad i'm not a Duck!!
    Duck!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    I'm rather sceptical of Mr Moore and have heard most of the investigative journalism is done by an army of about 30 behind the scenes. I was part of a campaign to have some footage removed from Bowling for Columbine which Moore blamed the BBC for wrongly supplying, but I was surprised he never checked the details himself on stock footage he was using.

    Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine and HJC.

  12. #12
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    The only problem I have with Bowling For Columbine is Moore's grilling of Heston who was clearly suffering from the onset of Alzheimers. Moore persued a line a questioning about events beyond Heston's control; what I would have liked to know is why a radical civil rights campaigner became a vocal supporter of the NRA gun lobby in his twilight years.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    In the 60s he was in favour of gun controls laws but i think the assassination of Kennedy sparked a U-turn.



    His more recent rhetoric has been unapologetic homophobia and racism.

  14. #14
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    DB7:

    I'm rather sceptical of Mr Moore and have heard most of the investigative journalism is done by an army of about 30 behind the scenes.
    I would be most surprised if it wasn't. I didn't imagine for a moment that he did it all himself.



    Similar for Britain's own Mark Steel who does a similar job here. He has a large support team as do most investigative jornalists. Even more so for those who present their findings on TV or film.



    Steve

  15. #15
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    It is interesting to read all your takes on the situation from your side. As you may have read my views on Moore before, I will mostly be a dissenter here.



    A few notes to add, the right to bear arms is a citizen's right from our Constitution. Mainly, the point is to protect oneself. The problem today is not with "cowboys" but primarily urban kids driving around shooting each other up. The situation concerning guns is more complex than most perceive.



    Btw, Charles Heston is and was a moderate "conservative", in the American sense of the word (our Republican Party is Whig in origin not Tory and neither Jacobin), but more in a post-war view than what is defined today, which has become a coalition of many conservatisms. He was never a radical, though "liberal" on some issues. Also, I must dissent on the charge of racism. That is not his history.



    I have nothing more to say on Moore.



    Back to Gerry C's question - it sounds a lot like "Omega Man" and Heston was the lead.



    Gibbie

  16. #16
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Gibbie:

    It is interesting to read all your takes on the situation from your side. As you may have read my views on Moore before, I will mostly be a dissenter here.



    A few notes to add, the right to bear arms is a citizen's right from our Constitution. Mainly, the point is to protect oneself.

    [snip]
    I must humbly disagree with this Gibbie. The 2nd amendment does say "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."



    So that only means the right to bear arms to form a miltia to fight off invaders (or the Government). That is different from using them for individual self-protection. You can't have a militia of one person.



    I agree that most Americans assume it means self-protection, but that's not how I read it.



    Moore's comparison with Switzerland is quite apt in this case. There, every citizen is a member of the militia, but they only use them for shooting holes in targets.



    You're right that there is more of a problem with inner-city gangs shooting each other than with "Cowboys". But don't forget that there are a LOT more shootings in domestic arguments in the States than in any other country, even those countries that have more guns in the home.



    Steve

  17. #17
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    SteveCrook:

    Similar for Britain's own Mark Steel who does a similar job here. He has a large support team as do most investigative jornalists. Even more so for those who present their findings on TV or film.
    Never heard of Mark Kent. The nearest to Moore I can think of over here in a politicized sense is Mark Thomas (was it The Mark Thomas Comedy Product), but the show tended to involve him standing outside a US airbase with a megaphone (take that stealth bomber) shouting about war being bad. All very 6th form stylee humour. In style another is one of Moore's old cohorts from TV Nation, Louis Theroux, whose whole programme essentially screams "look, aren't these people silly."



    I much preferred Chris Morris' more subversive Brass Eye which was fantastic satire and guaranteed to get the front-desk phones ringing at CH4. I think the final show stitched up Phil Collins so just that I'm eternally grateful. wink

  18. #18
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    Mark Thomas (was it The Mark Thomas Comedy Product), but the show tended to involve him standing outside a US airbase with a megaphone (take that stealth bomber) shouting about war being bad.
    He highlights some issues very effectively, but then spoils it with crude stunts, like dressing up as a Nazi. duh

  19. #19
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    DB7:

    Never heard of Mark Kent. The nearest to Moore I can think of over here in a politicized sense is Mark Thomas (was it The Mark Thomas Comedy Product)

    [snip]
    I was getting my Mark's mixed up. I did mean Mark Thomas.



    Although Mark Steel is another stand-up with a political slant and is very good.



    Steve

  20. #20
    Senior Member Country: UK DB7's Avatar
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    "Did you hear the one about the Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman..."

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