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  1. #481
    Senior Member Country: Australia ShirlGirl's Avatar
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    name='samkydd']I think that the police should be allowed to shoot people who are responsible for such violence.




    Sure, make Britain really civilized, forget the law courts, let the cops gun people down! So what if a few innocent people get killed by mistake!

  2. #482
    Super Moderator Country: UK christoph404's Avatar
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    name='BristolUK']You're not that daft. Blind, maybe, but not daft. You know pefectly well what the point is. You just don't agree.



    Maybe there were fights galore when you were a kid. From my teens to when I was 30 in 1987 I was on the town every Friday and Saturday night visiting pub after pub and then walking back through town and home with no trouble to be seen. Maybe it all kicked off when I was home, but worse stuff happens in the afternoon now than happened in the evenings in my younger day.


    According to Home Office statistics violent crime is on the decrease. www.crimestatistics.org.uk . According to the graph violent crime in 2007 is probably less than it was in 1981 when you take into account that there have been several new offences brought into force since then that you can be arrested and charged for (carrying a knife, immitation handgun, harrassment etc) The bad old days seemed to be 1995 when violent crime was at a peak at a staggering 40% more than it is now. Perhaps crime is down but sensationalised and alarmist newspaper reporting is up? Maybe our perception of the past is always rosier than the present, my perception is that the past seemed more crime free and peacefull but statistics don't seem to support that at all.

  3. #483
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    name='ShirlGirl']

    Sure, make Britain really civilized, forget the law courts, let the cops gun people down! So what if a few innocent people get killed by mistake!


    I don't think the British police would ever gun anyone down who's innocent!

  4. #484
    Senior Member Country: UK Moor Larkin's Avatar
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    name='christoph404']According to Home Office statistics
    So.... will it be the Home Office or the tabloids....... The tabloids or the Home Office........

    I think I'll keep taking the tablets..........



    And join the queue for my health-cheque.......

    The NHS is to launch a national screening programme to tackle some of Britain's biggest killer diseases, including heart attacks, strokes, diabetes and kidney failure, Gordon Brown will announce today. The programme, the first of its kind in the world, is expected to help prevent 200,000 deaths a year

    NHS screening programme takes centre stage in Brown fightback | Special Reports | Guardian Unlimited Politics



    200,000 deaths a year? That's halving the death rate according to this:

    National Statistics Online



    Remarkable things, shatshishtics







    I wonder which party will be the first to promise Eternal Life......

  5. #485
    Super Moderator Country: UK christoph404's Avatar
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    don't really see the link between how the tabloids collect and present information and how the Home Office does. I personnaly take everything in the tabloids with a pinch of salt, Home Office statistics at least make an attempt to present information based on impartial research and certainly don't sensationalise their findings. Its all there on their website, the high crime rate years and the lows,of course we can choose to dismiss the facts and figures as rubbish but unless we base our views on some kind of recognised research then it just boils down to personnal opinion and views, based on what we read in the papers or what we see going on outside our local pub at chucking out time.

  6. #486
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='christoph404']... how the tabloids collect and present information ...
    I assumed they just made it all up



    Steve

  7. #487
    Super Moderator Country: UK christoph404's Avatar
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    name='Steve Crook']I assumed they just made it all up



    Steve


    nice one.....totally agree!

  8. #488
    Senior Member Country: Canada
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    Of course the tabloids sensationalise everything. But at least 6 or 7 murders happened on the one night. Guardian, not tabloid sensationalism.



    So did the other knifings, glassings and beatings among people supposedly celebrating.



    If they didn't happen they couldn't be sensationalised. I'm pretty sure that half a dozen people being murdered on one night in England - especially when people are celebrating, you know, happy? - is not usual. I'm quite sure that so many knifings and glassings in one night in Bristol is not 'the norm' either.



    We should be horrified by it not making shameful jokes about it being a quiet night.



    We all know statistics can be made to mean different things. Don't stats show knife and gun crimes are up? The chances of being a victim years ago might statistically be the same as now. Or greater. The important factor is that one is more likely to be the victim of assault by lethal weapon and therefore less likely to survive than before.



    Perhaps the biggest difference between 'then' and 'now' is that 'back then' any bad stuff would have happened in certain places and after certain times.



    One could pretty much avoid problems by avoiding those places and times.



    Now you're at risk of assault going to your car after work or walking through town in the afternoon. With the added bonus of someone videoing the action on their mobile.

  9. #489
    Super Moderator Country: England
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    name='BristolUK']

    Now you're at risk of assault going to your car after work or walking through town in the afternoon. With the added bonus of someone videoing the action on their mobile.


    No, you're not. You really are not....didn't your folks never tell you not to believe everything you read in the papers?? Honestly, as someone who has lived and worked in Bristol for 25 years, it is a far, far, far safer place now than when I first came here. And from what I see of other cities...Nottingham and London mostly, the same is true there. Of course, that doesn't stop people killing each other, but it was always thus...and it tends not to be random acts in the street, but people with motives. These facts, naturally, don't sell papers or suit their crackpot pro-tory agendas, so you wouldn't know that over there in Canada.

  10. #490
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='BristolUK']Of course the tabloids sensationalise everything. But at least 6 or 7 murders happened on the one night. Guardian, not tabloid sensationalism.
    All British newspapers are now effectively tabloids (in attitude if not in size and shape). They are all looking for stories they can hype and sensationalise. They are all owned by a very few people (often family concerns like the Murdoch, Barclay and Myners families) and they all have their own agenda and their own spin to put on the stories. The Guardian is slightly better than the others and does usually admit its mistakes.



    You said before that you used to go out every night but never saw any fights. I think you must have either gone home early, had blinkers on or have been in an unusually quiet town. There have always been fights as part of the great British public going out and enjoying themselves. But they don't involve everyone. They are nearly all teenage boys fighting with other teenage boys, usually ones that they know. It's easy to avoid them now just as it was easy to avoid them 30+ years ago when I was a teenager.



    Yes, it's a shame when so many young men get killed. We all wish it didn't happen. But it does happen. It has always happened, it will always happen. That's what young men do. They get into arguments and fights, they lock antlers. Sometimes they hurt each other, very occasionally they kill each other.



    Steve

  11. #491
    Senior Member Country: United States TimR's Avatar
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    name='Steve Crook']....





    There's a lot more worth fighting for. To drag this thread back to the subject of British films, watch something like A Canterbury Tale (1944)



    Steve


    A belated thanks to you for recommending A Canterbury Tale here. Beautiful film. Much appreciated.

  12. #492
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='TimR']A belated thanks to you for recommending A Canterbury Tale here. Beautiful film. Much appreciated.
    Glad you liked it. It's not everyone's "cup of tea". You have to slow down to the pace of it.



    How about I Know Where I'm Going! (1945) as a follow up? Made the next year by the same writer, director & cinematographer team.



    Steve

  13. #493
    Senior Member Country: United States TimR's Avatar
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    name='Steve Crook']Glad you liked it. It's not everyone's "cup of tea". You have to slow down to the pace of it.



    How about I Know Where I'm Going! (1945) as a follow up? Made the next year by the same writer, director & cinematographer team.



    Steve


    I have seen it - and liked it very much. Among the women in my family - wife, mother, sister - it has something of a cult status, so it is impossible to avoid. Fortunately I also think it is a fine film.



    A Canterbury Tale is something entirely different from any film I have seen. I am still not clear on why it is so extraordinarily absorbing and moving. It reminds me of a legend or a myth brought to life - the same power. I am now looking out for Colonel Blimp, which I have not seen but is shown every few months on Turner Classic Movies.



    We are seeing more and more British films on that channel. I See A Dark Stranger , The Way to the Stars and Thunder Rock are all on later this month. I haven't seen the last one.



    Also, they are showing some little known films (at least in the US) made by a studio called Teddington - I haven't heard of it. My understanding is that it was the Warner Bros studio in Britain. One of the films is called Crown vs. Stevens , directed by Michael Powell.

  14. #494
    Super Moderator Country: England
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    I think Something Always Happens is on again too...another Powell, with real charm...more so than CrownVStevens, which is a bit routine.

  15. #495
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='TimR']I have seen it - and liked it very much. Among the women in my family - wife, mother, sister - it has something of a cult status, so it is impossible to avoid. Fortunately I also think it is a fine film.



    A Canterbury Tale is something entirely different from any film I have seen. I am still not clear on why it is so extraordinarily absorbing and moving. It reminds me of a legend or a myth brought to life - the same power. I am now looking out for Colonel Blimp, which I have not seen but is shown every few months on Turner Classic Movies.



    We are seeing more and more British films on that channel. I See A Dark Stranger , The Way to the Stars and Thunder Rock are all on later this month. I haven't seen the last one.



    Also, they are showing some little known films (at least in the US) made by a studio called Teddington - I haven't heard of it. My understanding is that it was the Warner Bros studio in Britain. One of the films is called Crown vs. Stevens , directed by Michael Powell.
    Yes, IKWIG is more of a romantic story whereas ACT, although it has love and romance at its heart, is more love for the countryside and the old ways. ACT definitely has that certain something though. Emeric Pressburger once said:

    "I think that a film should have a good story, a clear story, and it should have, if possible, something which is probably the most difficult thing - it should have a little bit of magic . . . Magic being untouchable and very difficult to cast, you can't deal with it at all. You can only try to prepare some nests, hoping that a little bit of magic will slide into them."

    Well the nests were well prepared and the magic definitely settled in the for ACT.



    It's strange, because it is quite an elusive story. The reaction from a lot of people is a sort of "Yes, it's nice, but what's it about?" The mystery at the beginning is soon resolved and it changes from a whodunit to a whydunit. And then there are those beautiful little interludes like the boys' river battle or Bob & Alison in the cart, which don't seem to progress the story at all but really add to the feel of a lazy summer's day.



    And it does have a message, watch how Colpepper changes. We must be aware of the past but we don't have to become locked in it.





    As for TCM (US), they are doing a great job in promoting some less well known British films. Often with the assistance of people like Thelma Schoonmaker, Martin Scorsese's multi Oscar winning editor and Michael Powell's widow. On 25 November last she was their guest presenter and introduced Green for Danger (1946), The Edge of the World (1937), The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943) and Age of Consent (1969). The last 3 being by Michael Powell.



    As penfold says, the one to really watch out for is Something Always Happens (1934). Given its budget and the speed at which it was made, it's a lovely piece of work.



    In fact I hadn't realised they were doing another run and I've just checked their schedule for January:

    16 Jan 09:00 The Edge of the World (1937)

    17 Jan 09:45 Something Always Happens (1934)

    17 Jan 13:45 Crown vs. Stevens (1936)

    22 Jan 03:30 The Red Shoes (1948)

    All times Eastern



    Enjoy



    Steve

  16. #496
    Senior Member Country: Canada
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    name='penfold'] Honestly, as someone who has lived and worked in Bristol for 25 years, it is a far, far, far safer place now than when I first came here. ..... These facts, naturally, don't sell papers or suit their crackpot pro-tory agendas, so you wouldn't know that over there in Canada.


    Well, my 47 years in Bristol until 2004 tell a different story to your 25.



    As I said earlier, I saw no trouble in many years of Friday/Saturday nights on the town in Bristol. If it really was happening to the same extent/severity that it's happening 'today' and I never saw it, then it must, as I suggested, have been happening in certain places at certain times. Now it's not only those places and only at those times.



    I understand there's been a few changes since I left Bristol ONLY three years ago - Broadmead etc so places may be different. But give me a Friday/Saturday night in town from 1973 to 1987 (in my experience) over an afternoon walk in the 90s and 00s in Portland/Brunswick Squares, Stokes Croft, Newfoundland Rd, the Bearpit and other subways, some multi-storey car parks



    To those unfamiliar with Bristol these are all places actually IN TOWN , or across the road from the shops or minutes away just on the edge of town.



    A special committee exists involving police and businesses/workers in the area. It meets regularly and issues reports regularly because of the high crime there. Street safety is a major issue during the day, hence the setting up of the committee.

  17. #497
    Senior Member Country: Australia
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    With Britain reportedly handing out millions of pounds in benefits to illegal immigrants each year it is rather sad to read about the plight of many of the famous Gurkhas.



    The Gurkhas were proud and gallant soldiers of the British Army who fought with distinction in World War 2.

    They originated from Nepal and have served the British Crown since 1815 and are renowned for their loyalty. Indeed, Gurkhas have won 13 Victoria Crosses.



    Yet there are some 5,200 Gurkha ex-servicemen and some 5,000 Gurkha widows who "do not qualify" for a British Army pension.



    As there is no social security or a national health service in Nepal it must be to Britain's shame that many of these proud men and women have been left destitute.



    What a way to treat war heroes.



    Dave.

  18. #498
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    name='David Brent']



    What a way to treat war heroes.



    Dave.


    The Ghurkas have been failed by all previous governemnts, but with the present one they've even less chance of any recognition.



    Brown will only help people who will vote for his party, and immigrants will eventually become citizens and vote Labour, no matter what their work circumstances are. His Marxist philosophy is also the model for the ANC in South Africa, and you can't even get help off the police there unless you're a party member!



    The other lot aren't much better and the mighty right sabre rattling over benefit fraud reminds me of the days of Tebbitt and Hezzer some 20 years ago. Do they not realise that benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared with corporate tax evasion and other big business defrauding of the government.

  19. #499
    Senior Member Country: UK Moor Larkin's Avatar
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    name='christoph404'] Its all there on their website, the high crime rate years and the lows,of course we can choose to dismiss the facts and figures as rubbish but unless we base our views on some kind of recognised research then it just boils down to personnal opinion and views,
    It just crossed my mind that 'crime' has evidently decreased by 40% since the 1980's yet we are currently being told the prisons are full up to over-flowing by the same department.........

    Something doesn't appear to add up does it......

    BBC NEWS | UK | Prisons reaching 'bursting point'



    This is where journalists should come in, to help make sure the politicians are caught out when they just make it all up. That has been a big problem in the Blairite years, when the generally left-leaning/liberal journalistic 'class' has allowed the ruling politico's to steal away the 'gold-plated' British Company Pension scheme by it's unopposable tax policy.

    Brown knew cost of pension fund raid | This is Money

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    Oh. Just realised. It's the blooming Daily Mail again. Can't even rely on the internet for unbiased information either..............

  20. #500
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    The story that has cheesed me off in the last week or so,was the one about the magistrate who walked out of court,because the defendent would not remove her naqib. He has been reprimanded and sent for retraining. I have nothing against people wearing their traditional clothes,but I do not like to Muslim women having their faces covered. It is degrading and does not fit in the so-called modern society of a developed country.

    Ta Ta

    Marky B

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