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  1. #1
    Senior Member Country: UK Chevyman's Avatar
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Country: England faginsgirl's Avatar
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    I`ve heard it all now! What a malicious old woman with nothing better to do to fill her day she must be!



    xx

  3. #3
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    Hi.

    Irrespective as to whether I wanted them to or not, if someone of a religious nature wanted to pray for me, I would take it as a compliment and that they mean well. There are some people who may seek comfort in their religion and even request for a last rite or even be converted before they die.



    At the moment I am fed up with what is supposed to be a free country, having people saying that on one hand we are free to believe or dis believe, but must not for an example, call cards Christmas cards etc , as it might offend. I am also offended and bored by them. If someone wishes to be Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, Atheist etc; that is their business. It should not interfere with their contract of employment. If it does then the contract of employment is wrong. It should not have them suspended. A simple quiet informal commonsense word to the employee would suffice, if someone might say something offensive. This could be done by the patient themself or the employer. As you may have guessed, I used to be a union rep.



    Alan French.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain
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    We are all living in a very sick society today!!! I just wonder where it will all end I don't think this poor nurse should be punished for offering to say a prayer.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    name='faginsgirl']I`ve heard it all now! What a malicious old woman with nothing better to do to fill her day she must be!



    xx


    It seems that the patient claimed she was not offended but was afraid that other patients might be.

    Perhaps the blame lies with the nurse's employers for taking it too seriously.

  6. #6
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='alan french']...

    At the moment I am fed up with what is supposed to be a free country, having people saying that on one hand we are free to believe or dis believe, but must not for an example, call cards Christmas cards etc , as it might offend.

    ...


    Who suggested that (except the usual urban myth about Winterval)?



    Steve

  7. #7
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    Hi.

    It seems all who have contributed to this thread are all in agreement. I admit I did not put my opinion as simple as everyone else.



    Alan French

  8. #8
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    Hi Steve,

    Just seen your message.

    I am not my usual jolly self today for some reason. But I am getting very concerned in which way society is going in my old age.

    Alan French.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Country: England faginsgirl's Avatar
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    name='thatllbetheday']It seems that the patient claimed she was not offended but was afraid that other patients might be.

    Perhaps the blame lies with the nurse's employers for taking it too seriously.


    Well yes, the blame does lie with the company but when the woman got on the phone she would have known she would have caused a fuss of some sort. So, if she wasn`t offended why didn`t she just let it go? How can she speak for other patients as she says?Another patient might take comfort in being prayed for.



    Either way, the intentions of the nurse were good ones! She now knows not to bother extending her kindness.







    xx

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    name='faginsgirl']

    Either way, the intentions of the nurse were good ones! She now knows not to bother extending her kindness.

    xx


    Which is a shame, because other patients will possibly be denied her goodwill in future.

  11. #11
    GRAEME
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    Hmm...



    I guess the nurse is paid to do her job and not use it as an excuse to prey (ha!ha!) on the ill or vulnerable in their own homes for a bit of evangelising.



    I get folks telling me they're going to pray for me. I always wonder why the hell they bother telling me - it has to be to stick their drippy faith in my face. I mean what can you say - oh ta! If you say please don't waste your breath, they think you're rude. Just get on with it people! If it's about an altruistic act of faith you don't need to advertise it.



    I think I would complain if a health professional or teacher or so started going on about prayer when they should be just getting on with their jobs. If this nurse wants to go door-to-door asking if she can pray for folks in her spare time then fine. Not on work time!

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    name='GRAEME']

    I think I would complain if a health professional or teacher or so started going on about prayer when they should be just getting on with their jobs. If this nurse wants to go door-to-door asking if she can pray for folks in her spare time then fine. Not on work time!


    I think she was doing her job .... as a nurse she has a 'duty of care' for her patients and it is emphasised by the NMC that this includes the patient's spiritual needs. If the patient was a Christian the nurse was fulfilling that duty by enquiring if the patient needed spiritual help. There is no indication that she was 'going on' about prayer. The patient had the right to refuse but IMHO was very churlish to report the nurse. Nursing isn't just about wiping arses et al .... it is a very complex profession and we have to deal holistically with our patient's needs .... and that includes their spiritual needs.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Country: Europe
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    name='batman']I think she was doing her job .... as a nurse she has a 'duty of care' for her patients and it is emphasised by the NMC that this includes the patient's spiritual needs. If the patient was a Christian the nurse was fulfilling that duty by enquiring if the patient needed spiritual help. There is no indication that she was 'going on' about prayer. The patient had the right to refuse but IMHO was very churlish to report the nurse. Nursing isn't just about wiping arses et al .... it is a very complex profession and we have to deal holistically with our patient's needs .... and that includes their spiritual needs.


    So, there are no nurses who are atheists?



    I'm with Graeme on this - I certainly wouldn't want anyone praying for me.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    name='Fellwanderer']So, there are no nurses who are atheists?


    I think you miss the point Fell. I deal with Muslim and Buddhist patients but i am not of their religion. If they need spiritual care I arrange it for them by contacting the appropriate people. If I was a Muslim/Budhist I would offer it myself if the patient was in immediate distress. An athiest nurse would deal with Christianity in the same way, by contacting the chaplain if it was a hospital scenario or via the patient's family or church. They are still fulfilling their 'duty of care'.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    name='Fellwanderer']

    I'm with Graeme on this - I certainly wouldn't want anyone praying for me.


    As I said in my post you have the right to say no .... the same as you have with a clinical procedure. The nurse made an offer which was declined by the patient, fair enough, but to report the nurse was a bit harsh to say the least.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    name='Steve Crook']Who suggested that (except the usual urban myth about Winterval)?



    Steve




    "Winterval" is/was no urban myth. It was Birmingham City council who originated it several years ago but only tried it once such was the outcry.

  17. #17
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    name='batman']I think you miss the point Fell.


    There was a hint of sarcasm in my query.




    I deal with Muslim and Buddhist patients but i am not of their religion. If they need spiritual care I arrange it for them by contacting the appropriate people. If I was a Muslim/Budhist I would offer it myself if the patient was in immediate distress. An athiest nurse would deal with Christianity in the same way, by contacting the chaplain if it was a hospital scenario or via the patient's family or church. They are still fulufilling their 'duty of care'.


    I'm sure that were I in that position, I would do the same - though metaphorically shaking my head at the same time.



    I have the greatest respect for all those in the caring professions - more so than all those overpaid prima donnas who prance around on a Saturday afternoon [that's footballers for those too young to remember when almost the only professional football to be seen was 3-4.45 on a Saturday afternoon ]

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Country: UK batman's Avatar
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    name='Fellwanderer']There was a hint of sarcasm in my query.







    I'm sure that were I in that position, I would do the same - though metaphorically shaking my head at the same time.






    Oh no .... you'll be doing post-modern irony next!



    Dealing with spiritual and cultural needs is one of the most difficult parts of the job .... the training we get on these issues amounts to about 3hrs a year and is almost always dominated by the possible legal repercussions if we get it wrong.

  19. #19
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    name='pelam']"Winterval" is/was no urban myth. It was Birmingham City council who originated it several years ago but only tried it once such was the outcry.


    Ho hum. Read the Wikipedia entry, especially the quotes from Mike Chubb, the originator of the word Winterval.



    Yes, there was such a "Winterval festival" but it was never a replacement for Christmas, it included Christmas and Diwali and various other winter festivals. It was our old friends the newspapers (and the Bishop of Birmingham) who made up the lies about the use of the word Christmas being banned and replaced by Winterval.



    Steve

  20. #20
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    name='Steve Crook']Ho hum. Read the Wikipedia entry, especially the quotes from Mike Chubb, the originator of the word Winterval.



    Yes, there was such a "Winterval festival" but it was never a replacement for Christmas, it included Christmas and Diwali and various other winter festivals. It was our old friends the newspapers (and the Bishop of Birmingham) who made up the lies about the use of the word Christmas being banned and replaced by Winterval.



    Steve


    Let's all go back to calling it Saturnalia. That seems to predate all other titles.

    Then we'll offend everybody and nobody.

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