Vanishing schools programmes

[Anorak 1960]

Being one of schools TV's biggest fans from the early 60s onwards, I still find more effort goes into a lot than other programmes, especially the older ones which can still be seen occasionally. So with this in mind, I have now seen them reduced to a single hour on TV a day on BBC2 and on the radio on digital Radio4.



The law has changed to excuse both commercial TV and BBC digital from showing them so neither now do at all, but does that automatically mean a) There is less need to show them at all and b) They are obliged not to show any.



I presume within a few years there will be no obligation for schools progammes at all, with the consequential death of them all, probably with some pathetic excuse they can watch Nick Junior or some other American based crap, or learn from the internet (how many actual programmes will they find there?).



Does anyone know the true reasons driving this hostility to schools/educational TV (the Open University already hung up their broadcasting ability some years ago) while drivel like Hannah Montana and a million similar Anime and related dross expand at a phenomenal rate from abroad and swamp the cable channels instead.

Currently now instead of learning geography and science from TV the kids continue to watch and pick up the worst Americanisms (whatever...), learn absolutely nothing and miss some of the best programming ever made that the previous generations will hold dear for the rest of their lives. I can't see this ever reversing, it seems the days of schools broadcasting are almost over and there is not a single benefit or reason for it.

[stevedr]

I couldnt agree with you more on this. I remember visiting in Canada in 1973 as an 11 year old and being amazed at the amount of channels they had then,but looking back they were just looping the same old stuff (mostly old ScFi etc) just like they do over here now. (Except we pay through the nose for it.)

And the problem isnt just limited to Children's TV. When we only had a couple of channels here in the UK the amount of competition it bred from Actors, writers, etc was incredible given that much of it was done on a shoestring. But this system pushed people and stimulated them. One difference from Children's tv then from now is that, is that there was often an element of instruction in each programme which taught some thing practical and useful. Then you could watch the cartoon stuff etc. But it seems to me its all out of proportion now.

[CaptainWaggett]

Surely the only reason kids watched schools programmes voluntarily was that there was nothing else on telly? I can remember being off sick from school and watching programmes about the Industrial Revolution - what child would be bored enough to do that now ?

[MB]

I hadn't heard anything about this - is there a link? I thought the seventies and eighties school offerings were awful and dull and enough to put you off education for life to be honest and children's TV in the nineties was pretty dire. But things had been improving.



The BBC are still showing schools programming on BBC 2 at the moment http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/websites/4_11/index.shtml it seems fairly comprehensive. Channel 4 also show schools programming (and tend to be a bit ‘hipper’ in their approach.)Of course, these days the teachers don't need to rely on TV for their educational videos - so that might be part of the reasoning. But last I heard, just a few years ago, it was a strong requirement of Ofcom to maintain a certain amount of educational balance, so I'm not sure what has sparked this recent change.



The digital age does have it's benefits. As for the rest of children’s TV – I’d take a look at the CCBC offerings which have expanded due to digital television. They have ‘Roar’ a fly on the wall documentary series set in a conservation park. We watched a show the other day BBC - CBBC Programmes - Gastronuts, Can We Cook Without a Cooker? where children were able to learn how to live wild (which mushrooms, berries etc are OK or not to eat.) All provided by the BBC. They often have programmes which look like pure entertainment – but where a bit of education is being sneakily snuck in.



Of course, sometimes they just want to watch 'Spongebob squarepants' because, like us, if they’ve been working all day – letting your brain go for a bit is exactly what you want. But I hope it is possible to maintain the education/entertainment balance.



There has always been awful telly though - Basil Brush is back, why, I don't know..

The success of 'Hannah Montana' is mystifying though. My daughter rejected it after one viewing – really awful.

[Anorak 1960]

Apart from the small selection we had at school, the days off when I saw them from 9.38 (who else remembers that moment every day?) till they finished as I couldn't go out hooked me from a very early stage. No videos then so had to be content with the rare days at home and lucky years later so many were repeated when I'd left school and was in and out the whole time.

The daily (not last week though) hour on BBC2 is what's left from a few on CBBC and more on BBC2, and the radio suddenly went from 2 hours a day (since about the 50s I reckon) to one. I didn't know C4 still had schools programmes, I must search them out.

But the children's programmes were for after school and not educational, some were great and others crap, but even they are not on ITV now and reduced on BBC1.



Look and Read, Music Time, Scene, Watch (still going!), geography (ditto), going to work and many more were very well made and entertaining, like the similar OU programmes I missed the last of when I started working on Saturdays. Then they did them overnight until they stopped entirely.

They also did a couple of OU hours on the radio Sunday afternoons and the maths programmes were incredible, the answers they gave to questions only a computer ought to know fascinated me as it was like listening to magical spells. Kids still spend every day in school, do they really think the static internet can replace the programmes although they are often on it as soon as they get home anyway? The genre had its own heroes- Jonathon Cohen, Peter Combe, Max Mason, Louise Hall-Taylor (phwoar!), and even Dave Benson-Philips later on. Some extended elsewhere but many were firmly placed in the school scene and familiar to everyone of that generation even if they didn't know their names. I hope the BBC learn their lesson in time not to abolish them altogether as once they stop no one will ever bring them back. I can't see the OU suddenly thinking TV programmes may help their students even though they seemed to be essential for over 30 years.

They had their own set of personalities- Allan Solomon, Gaby Smol, Kiki Warr (all science) and so many other familiar faces we will never see again- I was very lucky to see Dr Solomon but as it was at a funeral didn't seem appropriate to ask for an autograph, and went out with Gaby Smol's daughter a couple of times although only spoke to him on the phone when I rang his daughter. The two services provided a complete alternative to mainstream TV and if had to choose would always have kept that and left the other lot behind.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='Anorak 1960']Apart from the small selection we had at school, the days off when I saw them from 9.38 (who else remembers that moment every day?) till they finished as I couldn't go out hooked me from a very early stage. No videos then so had to be content with the rare days at home and lucky years later so many were repeated when I'd left school and was in and out the whole time.

The daily (not last week though) hour on BBC2 is what's left from a few on CBBC and more on BBC2, and the radio suddenly went from 2 hours a day

Radio 4 (on its digital platform) broadcasts school programmes from 3am to 5am several nights a week during term-time. They can then be used in schools via Listen Again (or presumably recorded). The programmes are much the same the I remember them - endless repetition of nursery rhymes and folk-songs interspersed with the odd short play.

[torinfan]

When I was a kid, the children's educational shows were all on PBS - Sesame Street. Mr Rogers, The Electric Company.

[MB]

Anorak - I understand what you mean. It does provide a service that is, in theory, carefully regulated and intended to be for purely educational purposes. I think the BBC has been focused, in recent years, on competing with the other channels, rather than building on their unique selling point.



Have you tried the documentary channels? They vary hugely in quality - but they might provide some of what you are looking for.

[Steve Crook]

name='CaptainWaggett']Radio 4 (on its digital platform) broadcasts school programmes from 3am to 5am several nights a week during term-time. They can then be used in schools via Listen Again (or presumably recorded). The programmes are much the same the I remember them - endless repetition of nursery rhymes and folk-songs interspersed with the odd short play.

When I catch those on my DAB radio in the kitchen they seem to be very much in the style of "George, don't do that"



Joyce was ahead of her time



Although I do wonder why so many young children are awake and doing those dances at 3am



Steve

[CaptainWaggett]

For those interested, here's the BBC schools radio schedule. For those feeling nostalgic, this page covers prgrammes from the past. And here's what the BBC currently offer.



Do they actually get shown much in schools? I don't remember ever watching this sort of this in secondary school though we did watch a programme (just the one!) every week in primary school. I'm not really sure who the target audience actually is...

[MB]

I don't know, I've never taught in a school as I haven't got a PGCE. But I asked my daughter and she tells me that they do watch TV programmes on big projector screens - but says these come from DVDs. (and I cannot spell or punctuate particularly well - so I'm not sure they'd have me.)



This may be from the rest of the BBC output, mind you, as they did have a fairly extensive wider network of learning resources - BBC - GCSE Bitesize - Homepage and I have seen appalling adverts for 'BBC worldwide' where they attempt to extract money out of you for 'learning' DVDs.



In fact - this may be an answer to the conundrum as I think BBC worldwide is more of a private concern? Perhaps they are supplementing their 'educational' output by advising schools to buy these DVDs. I don't know - I'm curious though, so I will ask.



I found this, but haven't been able to investigate.

BBC Educational and Documentary Programmes on DVD

[Anorak 1960]

MB, I suspectyou may have the answer. Like Sky they are slowly sneaking stuff off free TV and while still making it, forcing people to pay for it. Now had we not already paid through the licence fee this would have been a commercial decision, but for the fact the BBC is not a commercial outfit.



Any laws are long out of date as one by one the regulations were relaxed to stop ITV showing any kid's programmes and CBBC any educational. Labour or Conservative now all our assets are being treated like the worst of Murdoch's empire and there is nothing we can do about it as far as I can see.

[MB]

'Muzzy' is questionable...

"Muzzy" Muzzy DVD Level 2 (French) at BBC Shop



They are basically flogging dated French programmes they have bought and at an extortionate price and the cloying adverts use a very unseemingly mixture of guilt and elitism that I wouldn't expect from a BBC I was already paying for.



'What a wonderful opportunity for your child and what a great advantage in life...'



Well, excuse me, but I thought we all payed our licence fee in this country to



a)Stop ourselves getting arrested

b) To provide a neutral service that we can all enjoy and is for everyones benefit.



How they can justify this I don't know.



For various reasons, we pay for tutorial French lessons for my daughter and work with her French ourselves, but both myself and her father have baulked at Muzzy and I don't know anyone else who has fallen for it - but some must because the adverts keep appearing.



MUZZY French for Children