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  1. #1
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Country: UK Freddy's Avatar
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    The pensioner, by fighting back not only saved himself from harm but also stopped the young criminal who was drunk at the time, having to live with the knowledge that he stabbed an old man, possibly fatally. Those punches stopped the lad from ruining many lives.

  3. #3
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    name='Freddy']The pensioner, by fighting back not only saved himself from harm but also stopped the young criminal who was drunk at the time, having to live with the knowledge that he stabbed an old man, possibly fatally. Those punches stopped the lad from ruining many lives.


    Bloody Hell! Who cares what the little **** had on his mind and how he felt afterwards.



    He was up to no good and got what he didn't expect - a good battering from someone he targeted as a vunerable victim.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Country: England faginsgirl's Avatar
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    name='Freddy']The pensioner, by fighting back not only saved himself from harm but also stopped the young criminal who was drunk at the time, having to live with the knowledge that he stabbed an old man, possibly fatally. Those punches stopped the lad from ruining many lives.


    He was sober enough to pick up and knife and to break into somebody`s house though! I have been drunk many times and never thought about doing that suprisingly enough! He got what he deserved and I`m glad it wasn`t one of these stupid idiotic instances where the old man was charged instead of the burgular!



    xx

  5. #5
    GRAEME
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    name='faginsgirl'] I`m glad it wasn`t one of these stupid idiotic instances where the old man was charged instead of the burgular!



    xx


    Which almost only ever happens in tabloid columnists' diseased right-wing minds!



    We all have a perfect right to protect ourselves and our families from harm - up to and including the use of fatal force if that becomes necessary.



    People only get prosecuted if they behave UNREASONBLY. For example, beating a kid's brains out with a hammer for stealing a car radio - or in the Martin case lying in wait in what deliberately looks like an unoccupied house with an illegally held firearm and then shooting a fleeing burglar in the back!



    Just because the law doesn't allow open season on anyone who walks on your lawn does not mean we've lost the right to self-defence.



    And I say well done to this old bruiser too!

  6. #6
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    name='GRAEME']Which almost only ever happens in tabloid columnists' diseased right-wing minds!



    We all have a perfect right to protect ourselves and our families from harm - up to and including the use of fatal force if that becomes necessary.



    People only get prosecuted if they behave UNREASONBLY. For example, beating a kid's brains out with a hammer for stealing a car radio - or in the Martin case lying in wait in what deliberately looks like an unoccupied house with an illegally held firearm and then shooting a fleeing burglar in the back!



    Just because the law doesn't allow open season on anyone who walks on your lawn does not mean we've lost the right to self-defence.



    And I say well done to this old bruiser too!


    youre wrong graeme .

    if you heard a burglar tonight and grabbed say for example a golf club which is something perfectly reasonable to have round the house and "hurted " him / her [ could be a lady ! ] you would be in a great deal more trouble than them .

    you were armed they werent .



    why things are like that i dont know ,maybe its out of touch prosecuters who still live in the 1950's where a burglar would wear a hooped jumper and say " fair cop guv "

    perhaps its a left wing mentality of " the criminal is also a victim " that makes them want to jump to their defence ......i dont know

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Country: UK christoph404's Avatar
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    name='davidb']youre wrong graeme .

    if you heard a burglar tonight and grabbed say for example a golf club which is something perfectly reasonable to have round the house and "hurted " him / her [ could be a lady ! ] you would be in a great deal more trouble than them .

    you were armed they werent .



    why things are like that i dont know ,maybe its out of touch prosecuters who still live in the 1950's where a burglar would wear a hooped jumper and say " fair cop guv "

    perhaps its a left wing mentality of " the criminal is also a victim " that makes them want to jump to their defence ......i dont know




    You may remember a story that made the national headlines last November. In Luton shopkeeper Tony Singh was threatened by a knife wielding robber Liam Kilroe who was intent on robbing him of his takings. Not only did Mr Singh "completely lose it" as eyewitnesses said, ie lost his temper, he beat the living daylights out of the would be robber in a fight that ended up out on the pavement and took the knife from him and stabbed him to death with it. Mr Singh was of course arrested but the police recommended that he should not be charged or prosecuted as they were satisfied that he had acted in self defence and the crown prosecution agreed. Mr Singh was regarded as a hero in his local community and no charges were brought against him. I don't think the law is always an ass as that would seem like a sensible outcome to me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Country: England
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    name='christoph404']You may remember a story that made the national headlines last November. In Luton shopkeeper Tony Singh was threatened by a knife wielding robber Liam Kilroe who was intent on robbing him of his takings. Not only did Mr Singh "completely lose it" as eyewitnesses said, ie lost his temper, he beat the living daylights out of the would be robber in a fight that ended up out on the pavement and took the knife from him and stabbed him to death with it. Mr Singh was of course arrested but the police recommended that he should not be charged or prosecuted as they were satisfied that he had acted in self defence and the crown prosecution agreed. Mr Singh was regarded as a hero in his local community and no charges were brought against him. I don't think the law is always an ass as that would seem like a sensible outcome to me.


    it was in lancs this happened and never minding the end outcome the shopkeeper spent time remanded in custody .



    the kilroe man ambushed him after he locked up the shop and was in his car with the days takings ,seemingly kilroe smashed the drivers window and grabbed the money then singh and kilroe grappled each other in the street . i reckon id completely lose it if i was in singhs shoes .

  9. #9
    Senior Member Country: United States torinfan's Avatar
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    Mine, too. In incidences like that, your instincts kick in and you fight the best way you know how. Good on Corti!

  10. #10
    GRAEME
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    name='davidb']youre wrong graeme .

    if you heard a burglar tonight and grabbed say for example a golf club which is something perfectly reasonable to have round the house and "hurted " him / her [ could be a lady ! ] you would be in a great deal more trouble than them .

    you were armed they weren't .



    why things are like that i dont know ,maybe its out of touch prosecuters who still live in the 1950's where a burglar would wear a hooped jumper and say " fair cop guv "

    perhaps its a left wing mentality of " the criminal is also a victim " that makes them want to jump to their defence ......i dont know


    I do wish you'd actually read what you're replying to!



    Of course if you attack an unarmed man with a weapon you are liable to get some accusations lobbed at you. I was talking about protecting yourself and your family from HARM. Not property. Physical harm. You have to use reasonable force.



    The example given above is a case in point - can't you see the difference? An unarmed burglar can be scared off with a golf club but if you beat him to a pulp - you've assaulted him. He's a burglar - you're a violent criminal. It is UNREASONABLE to do that. If on the other hand, he has a knife most people would allow that hitting him might be reasonable.



    Only a vigilant zealot would think we should have the right to half kill people for committing an offence that only carries a couple of years penalty if it goes to court.



    And ANYBODY who is accused of a crime may spend time in a police station and may be remanded in custody. Especially if accused of violent crime. This happened to the guy above but NO CHARGES WERE BROUGHT.



    Think please.



    The law is the same for everybody - if a person (even a criminal) brings an accusation of assault it must be investigated. Why not?



    Why do some folks seem to want a special carte blanch to kill or maim people who look sideways at their property.



    You stay inside the law if you use reasonable force - that might mean waving a stick at an intruder to frighten them away - or killing a nutter who's attacking your daughter with a knife. The law will investigate and judge if it was reasonable.



    People like yourself seem to think it shouldn't even investigate - like it is an effrontery even to question whether it was reasonable. People have the right not to be attacked unless they are posing a direct threat to human life - yes, even criminals have this right. This is still supposed to be a civilised country.

  11. #11
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    graeme im not talking about someone glancing at your property im talking about someone being inside it burgling the place ,someone picking up a golf club to defend themselves and clobbering the burglar if he confronted them would be in trouble if that burglar got hurt

    burglar beware is the message id like to give out but the law in this country just sees an easy conviction for assault



    i dont see why anyone embarking on a criminal act has " rights " neither ,if we have burgars rights then whats next ? murderers rights ? rapists rights ?

    you go out burgling and encounter mr corti and he gives you a bloody good hiding ..tough

    you go out burgling and some bloke worried about his wife and kids clobbers you on with a golf club ..tough



    im not suggesting capturing and torturing criminals but if somebody puts up a bloody good struggle while someone was trying to thieve their property and the burglar/mugger or whatever gets hurt then they brought it on themselves

  12. #12
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    not only does he look a right berkley hunt he's also getting four and a half years for aggravated burglary .

    reading about some of the facts of the case this could have been yet another instance of where someone in their twilight years meets an unpleasant end at the hands of a violent oaf .



    not this time though



    well done mr corti




  13. #13
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain Mark O's Avatar
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    Well done Frank!

  14. #14
    GRAEME
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    name='davidb']graeme im not talking about someone glancing at your property im talking about someone being inside it burgling the place ,someone picking up a golf club to defend themselves and clobbering the burglar if he confronted them would be in trouble if that burglar got hurt

    burglar beware is the message id like to give out but the law in this country just sees an easy conviction for assault



    i dont see why anyone embarking on a criminal act has " rights " neither ,if we have burgars rights then whats next ? murderers rights ? rapists rights ?

    you go out burgling and encounter mr corti and he gives you a bloody good hiding ..tough

    you go out burgling and some bloke worried about his wife and kids clobbers you on with a golf club ..tough



    im not suggesting capturing and torturing criminals but if somebody puts up a bloody good struggle while someone was trying to thieve their property and the burglar/mugger or whatever gets hurt then they brought it on themselves




    Human rights are human rights. For humans. You don't lose them you commit a crime - thank God!



    I guess you're saying you'd like us to have the right to give anyone braking and entering a jolly good hiding? I'm glad the law doesn't agree with you.



    I'll tell you for why: If a burglar knew that householders were ALLOWED BY LAW to attack and possibly maim them - more of them might start carrying weapons. And then more people would end up getting hurt or killed. I say "hooray for burglars who DO NOT go to work with knives and guns!"



    In the USA where a burglar has to assume that householders have guns - people get murdered much more regularyly! Do we want that? I know that what we really want is no burglary - but that just isn't going to happen. Again, in America you are practically allowed to execute intruders - doesn't stop burglary happening.



    You only have the right to defend yourself against attack - someone stealing your DVD isn't life threatening. Let it go. If you attack and hurt someone who is in your house you have committed the more serious crim! An act of violence.



    If it can be proven that they intended you or anybody else harm - then you would not be prosecuted for taking them on - as long as the force used was reasonable.



    Why do so many people have problems with the word "reasonable"?

  15. #15
    Senior Member Country: England jaycad's Avatar
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    name='christoph404']You may remember a story that made the national headlines last November. In Luton shopkeeper Tony Singh was threatened by a knife wielding robber Liam Kilroe who was intent on robbing him of his takings. Not only did Mr Singh "completely lose it" as eyewitnesses said, ie lost his temper, he beat the living daylights out of the would be robber in a fight that ended up out on the pavement and took the knife from him and stabbed him to death with it. Mr Singh was of course arrested but the police recommended that he should not be charged or prosecuted as they were satisfied that he had acted in self defence and the crown prosecution agreed. Mr Singh was regarded as a hero in his local community and no charges were brought against him. I don't think the law is always an ass as that would seem like a sensible outcome to me.


    this happened in the town where i live not luton-liam kilroe was a known thug (and related to a good friend of mine) and paid the ultimate price for his crimes ,but singh is hardly the innocent shopkeeper the press made him out to be either!

    the story that started the thread is a completely different scenario and i'm made up about the outcome!!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Country: UK christoph404's Avatar
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    name='jaycad']this happened in the town where i live not luton-liam kilroe was a known thug (and related to a good friend of mine) and paid the ultimate price for his crimes ,but singh is hardly the innocent shopkeeper the press made him out to be either!

    the story that started the thread is a completely different scenario and i'm made up about the outcome!!


    yes, apparently it was in Skermesdale Lancs, for some reason I thought it was Luton, my mistake.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Country: England jaycad's Avatar
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    name='christoph404']yes, apparently it was in Skermesdale Lancs, for some reason I thought it was Luton, my mistake.


    i'm surprised that it made nationwide news!

  18. #18
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    name='GRAEME']Human rights are human rights. For humans. You don't lose them you commit a crime - thank God!



    I guess you're saying you'd like us to have the right to give anyone braking and entering a jolly good hiding? I'm glad the law doesn't agree with you.



    I'll tell you for why: If a burglar knew that householders were ALLOWED BY LAW to attack and possibly maim them - more of them might start carrying weapons. And then more people would end up getting hurt or killed. I say "hooray for burglars who DO NOT go to work with knives and guns!"



    In the USA where a burglar has to assume that householders have guns - people get murdered much more regularyly! Do we want that? I know that what we really want is no burglary - but that just isn't going to happen. Again, in America you are practically allowed to execute intruders - doesn't stop burglary happening.



    You only have the right to defend yourself against attack - someone stealing your DVD isn't life threatening. Let it go. If you attack and hurt someone who is in your house you have committed the more serious crim! An act of violence.



    If it can be proven that they intended you or anybody else harm - then you would not be prosecuted for taking them on - as long as the force used was reasonable.



    Why do so many people have problems with the word "reasonable"?


    "let it go" indeed ! if someone steals the dvd ! ,of course they wont have smashed a window or ransacked the place at the same time .



    i used to work as a recovery driver and in the case of stolen cars you quite often find theyve been booby trapped with dirty needles or razor blades sellotaped to the door handles ,what you dont understand is some people who go round burgling or nicking cars are scum ,filthy good for nothing pond life . the reason why they booby trap the cars with dirty needles is because of their lifestyle ,the drugs theyve used or the homosexual encounters theyve had in prisons has ended up with them having hepatitis or even aids and they want to share that misery with you .



    so there you go ,a little insight into the world of recovery drivers dealing with the after affects of " joy riders "

    dont think that the burglar is a much nicer species ,its no longer someone with a hooped t shirt and mask ,not too many gentleman raffles types anymore

  19. #19
    Senior Member Country: England
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    actually ,although there will be some reading this who will stick their fingers in their ears and say that its something the daily mail has made up and wont want to take it in ,if you do ever find your car broken into be very careful as to how you go about inspecting the damage ,get a thick pair of garden gloves or something and just be really cautious at all times with it .



    i got to the point where i used to just sling the cable from the winch on the towing eyelet of the car and drag it on to the ramp whether it was in gear or the handbrake on ,i just didnt want to touch the things

  20. #20
    GRAEME
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    name='davidb']"let it go" indeed ! if someone steals the dvd ! ,of course they wont have smashed a window or ransacked the place at the same time .



    i used to work as a recovery driver and in the case of stolen cars you quite often find theyve been booby trapped with dirty needles or razor blades sellotaped to the door handles ,what you dont understand is some people who go round burgling or nicking cars are scum ,filthy good for nothing pond life . the reason why they booby trap the cars with dirty needles is because of their lifestyle ,the drugs theyve used or the homosexual encounters theyve had in prisons has ended up with them having hepatitis or even aids and they want to share that misery with you .



    so there you go ,a little insight into the world of recovery drivers dealing with the after affects of " joy riders "

    dont think that the burglar is a much nicer species ,its no longer someone with a hooped t shirt and mask ,not too many gentleman raffles types anymore


    I give up. Our world views are utterly irreconcilable.

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