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  1. #41
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    I saw in one documentary about "Operation Market Garden" that it was a standard pre war test for officers in the Dutch Army to move troops from the Belgian border to the Rhine. If they sent the troops along that road through Eindhoven & Nijmegen to Arnhem then they failed the exercise because the single track raised road was so exposed and it was so easy to block an advance along it

    Steve

  2. #42
    Senior Member Country: England mrs_emma_peel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windthrop View Post
    Personally I quite liked Bogarde's performance in the film and felt he made a strong impact even amongst that stellar cast.
    I agree - I've always thought it was fine, extremely under-rated film and one of the final scenes - the Bogarde and Connery confrontation - is very powerful indeed. I thought Bogarde's performance when attempting justification was quietly under-stated - matching Connery's powerful fury at the catastrophic losses of his men.
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    Last edited by mrs_emma_peel; 11-03-13 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azanti View Post


    Now this is not a case of a version that was different from TV, I am well aware the film has recently been appallingly badly cut for television on its last two showings. However its original screening on ITV 1 in 1983/2 was no different from the DVD currently available, both of which I have. (Other than the ratios for viewing)


    The UK cinema release was cut by the BBFC in order to get an "A" rating by editing out the word "f***ing" in the scene where James Caan holds the doctor at gunpoint (Elliott Gould's later use of the word was not present in the cinema print) and closeups of men's bloody faces during the assault on Arnhem. The cuts were restored in the 15-rated video and DVD versions.

    http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0075784/a...ons?ref_=tt_ft

    I saw this PG version at the cinema (at the Leicester Square Theatre ) but when I saw a CH4 screening that word was reinstated amongst other cuts.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Country: Scotland
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrs_emma_peel View Post
    I agree - I've always thought it was fine, extremely under-rated film and one of the final scenes - the Bogarde and Connery confrontation - is very powerful indeed. I thought Bogarde's performance when attempting justification was quietly under-stated - matching Connery's powerful fury at the catastrophic losses of his men.
    Emma

    Fan Made Trailer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kojz2qZYqq0




    Official Theatrical Trailer
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    Lady Browning loathed Bogarde's performance, as she stated it made her husband look far too effete, when in real life, he was far more 'macho', for want of a better phrase.

  5. #45
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayrshireman View Post
    Lady Browning loathed Bogarde's performance, as she stated it made her husband look far too effete, when in real life, he was far more 'macho', for want of a better phrase.
    The widow is the last person who should be consulted when judging that sort of thing. Daphne never saw him when he was being a soldier and planning operations. She just wanted to protect her own image of him. Not exactly an impartial advisor. There were other advisers on the film who did serve with him and who could give a much more realistic picture

    Steve

  6. #46
    Senior Member Country: England
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    Good points. I once reviewed a biography of General Sir John Hackett (present at Arnhem as one of the Parachute Brigade commanders). He certainly deserved one as a significant figure both as a soldier and later in his second career in higher education. It was a turgid hagiography with little or no objectivity. I tend not to write hatchet jobs, so pulled punches whilst leaving the readership in little doubt of its value as history. The author wrote to me saying that Lady Hackett liked it; his son liked it; his batman at Arnhem liked it; his driver, his handyman... I was waiting for the name of any even mildly known historian. There wasn't one.

    Yes, Bogarde fell out over the portrayal of Browning, and there are elements which speak more to American prejudices towards the British, both societal and contemporary, especially in the senior military*. But it was not 100% inaccurate - and a large chunk of blame justifiably falls to him. Taking up scarce glider resoureces to move his entire Corps HQ to Holland denied vital reinforcements in a timely fashion. His attitude towards General Sosabowski as portrayed in the film was completely accurate, and I have that from the historian of the Polish Brigade. (Who added when he wrote his book in the late 1980s, he interviewed the General's son who I think was a surgeon living in the UK; almost teasingly he asked if son knew what his father had said when he jumped over Driel. "I do not; but I can assure you it was almost certainly not 'God Bless General Montgomery'"). I think Hackman was cast more for his general resemblance to Sosabowski; something the casting actually did quite well for the main players in terms of resemblance.

    * General Joseph Lawton Collins, aka 'Lightnin' Joe', who fought in the Pacific and Europe [was the uncle of Michael Collins the Apollo astronaut] and ended his career as US Army Chief of Staff blamed the slow progress in Normandy after D-Day on the British. He tried to sugar the pill by saying that our Generals, being WW1 Western Front veterans, were 'casualty averse' and the young, less sanguine Americans would have pressed on regardless. This was in an interview in 'The World At War'.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman View Post
    * General Joseph Lawton Collins, aka 'Lightnin' Joe', who fought in the Pacific and Europe [was the uncle of Michael Collins the Apollo astronaut] and ended his career as US Army Chief of Staff blamed the slow progress in Normandy after D-Day on the British. He tried to sugar the pill by saying that our Generals, being WW1 Western Front veterans, were 'casualty averse' and the young, less sanguine Americans would have pressed on regardless. This was in an interview in 'The World At War'.
    Americans, be they military or historian or layman, ignore just what the British (and Canadians and Poles) faced in Normandy. Errors were made, but we faced the cream of the SS, SS Panzer, Panzer and infantry units. Whilst the Americans by and large faced more 'second rate' infantry divisions. The Americans faced only a small amount of German armour, whilst the Anglo-Canadian sector faced consistently high numbers of German armour. In fact, on several occasions in Normandy, German tanks were withdrawn from the US sector and sent to face the British.

  8. #48
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    I went on a tour of Normandy recently and that ground that the Brits fought in was beautiful tank country for the Germans. I've wargames it god knows how many times, and the Britis always get all the worst armour from Jerry. It's just too hard to get it all over to the yanks.

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