Reply With QuoteThanks for the heads up, julian! I visit and contribute to this Bogart site :
Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Hopefully, some British movies will be mentioned.....
The Rules of Film Noir
Saturday 22nd August, 21:00 on BBC Four (60 mins)
Bogey, Bacall and Mitchum play it tough as Matthew Sweet celebrates the hardboiled world of noir movies.
Presenter
Matthew Sweet
Director
Elaine Pieper
Broadcasts
Sat 22 Aug 2009
21:00
BBC Four
Sun 23 Aug 2009
00:50
BBC Four
Sun 23 Aug 2009
03:35
BBC Four
Thanks for the heads up, julian! I visit and contribute to this Bogart site :
Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
That looks good and I should be able to catch one of those broadcasts.
Today's edition:
Why the recession will lead to a renaissance in film noir
Ahead of his BBC Four documentary, film critic Matthew Sweet explains why dark dangerous movies are back in vogue.
I think that, by definition, film noir is USA. Similar Britfilms would have to be described as 'Film noir style'. So the aspiration of the thread is technically flawed (to be picky).
name='Bernardo']I think that, by definition, film noir is USA. Similar Britfilms would have to be described as 'Film noir style'. So the aspiration of the thread is technically flawed (to be picky).
Tell that to the author of this book (though, to be honest, it's full of 'it can't be much good as a prison film - it's British' -style commentary)
Agreed. Its an inherently American genre, & doesn't really convince in films outside the US.name='Bernardo']I think that, by definition, film noir is USA. Similar Britfilms would have to be described as 'Film noir style'. So the aspiration of the thread is technically flawed (to be picky).
name='Timmy_Lea']Agreed. Its an inherently American genre, & doesn't really convince in films outside the US.
The Third Man
They Made Me a Fugitive
Contraband
Odd Man Out
The Small Back Room
(and many others)
Steve
name='Steve Crook']The Third Man
They Made Me a Fugitive
Contraband
Odd Man Out
The Small Back Room
(and many others)
Steve
Quite right Steve! I'd include Brighton Rock and let's not forget the classic noir (on anybody's list) Night and the City!
name='GRAEME']Quite right Steve! I'd include Brighton Rock and let's not forget the classic noir (on anybody's list) Night and the City!
They Drive By Night
Appointment with Crime
Obsession
Temptation Harbour
Double Confession
to add to the ones already mentioned.
There's an interesting article by Matthew Sweet about the origins of noir in today's Guardian.
And in New York they've included Hell Drivers!!...
Maybe, when the modern Yanks read the word noir, they think it just means 'black' and white.....
The programme jigged about a bit I thought. Not very convincing. The commentary said something about 'Victory' (in the war) leading to an alternative-view cynicism - and then to illustrate the premise showed a clip from a 1940 movie, which seemed a trifle daft.
The commentary also wittered on about the German Expressionists bringing the darkness of Hitler-infested Europe to the screens of America, but said all these movies stemmed from a purely American ethos of pulp fiction that came from Dashiell Hammett in 1929!!
I think they just kept mixing cause and effect up so much it became trite.
Some good extracts though. The contributions from screen professionals were more interesting however. I particularly liked the cinematographer explaining how simple noir was, but admitting he had no idea how Lancaster and Curtis's long walk and conversation was managed, out on the street location.
I'm just watching The Lady from Shanghai and wondering why the hell Orson is pretending to be Irish...........
Officially and originally, yes. The Film Noir genre - as defined by French Film Critics - only allows for films that were shot in black and white, American, and set in contemporary times (relative to shooting date). This genre began with Underworld (1927) and ended with Touch of Evil (1958). That's the official definition anyway. The strangest part of that is that most people who made those films had no idea that they were making Film Noir films - because the term wasn't coined until 1946 and didn't come into common usage until some time latername='Timmy_Lea']Agreed. Its an inherently American genre, & doesn't really convince in films outside the US.
The trouble is that that excludes even a lot of American films that most people consider to be Film Noir. So you really have to open it out to make it allow films made in other years, some before, but many after those dates, and for films made in other countries.
Like those shown at the Brit Noir festival in NYC.
Steve
I see no contradiction. The plots came from pulp fiction novels, the cinematic style came from german expressionism.name='Moor Larkin']
The commentary also wittered on about the German Expressionists bringing the darkness of Hitler-infested Europe to the screens of America, but said all these movies stemmed from a purely American ethos of pulp fiction that came from Dashiell Hammett in 1929!!
The programme was an entertaining way to spend an hour, but was necessarily superficial to fit the time slot. Still, any noir is better than no noir and they are showing some good films.
Glamourous (but treacherous) blonde American femme fatales in luxurious cocktail bars - and that was just the 'film/media studies' commentator (not Matthew Sweet....) !
name='batman']The programme was an entertaining way to spend an hour, but was necessarily superficial to fit the time slot. Still, any noir is better than no noir and they are showing some good films.
It could be seen as a good starting point for beginners
Nobody knew American crime movies from the 1940's were "film noir" until French critics (I think it was one in particular) called it that. I don't know why you can't describe a movie from another country as film noir, period. The Third Man certainly qualifies as film noir. Does it matter which country it came from?
The place where the commentary was trite was when it implied that the Germans/Europeans were cinematically showing policemen as 'corrupt/suppressive' (cue shades of Adolf), when in fact that whole concept came from the pulp fiction... not the cinematic style. It was that mixing-up of causality that mostly annoyed me. As batman says, it could have been a good 'beginners guide', but this sort of glib politics was misleading.name='Timmy_Lea']I see no contradiction. The plots came from pulp fiction novels, the cinematic style came from german expressionism.
The Americans and their own cynicism about their own police forces deserved credit for the politics, not displaced European cineasts, who were given a home by the Land of the Free....... The very nature of *pulp fiction* implies popularity with the average joe.... just as the movies were *cheap* and accessible.
Posting Permissions
