Football Rivalry

[hhhhancock]

After seeing the clips of the disgusting behaviour of both sets of fans during and after the West Ham and Millwall game I wondered if there were people out there adult enough to respect their local rivals and not get involved in this juvenile rivalry that tends to destroy the image of our beautiful game.



Liverpool v Everton, Man Utd v Man City, Blackburn v Preston (and Burnley), Portsmouth v Southampton, QPR v Brentford. The list is endless.



My dad was born and brought up in Tottenham and was an avid supporter of Spurs in his youth and twenties. He used to tell me about games against Arsenal (our local rivals) in the 1940's and 1950's, and the friendly banter between rival fans on the way to, and after the match, and all the fans meeting up after the game to buy each other drinks and have a civilised chat about the game. Why can't we do that anymore?



Am I the only Spurs fan who wishes Arsenal well (although not as well as Spurs of course) in their matches and particularly when they represent England in European matches?



Come on folks, it's only a game of football after all.

[jaycad]

there was a time when liverpool and everton fans sat together and all were proud of their cities achievements as a whole but not now i'm afraid!

the tide seemed to change in the mid 90s where evertonians became very bitter towards liverpool (any evertonian will recognise the term 'bitter blue)and used man utds success to wind up liverpool fans who well and truly fell for it! many evertonians i know get more pleasure from a liverpool defeat than an everton win and i have two evertonian mates who come out to watch certain liverpool games (man utd,chelsea,arsenal,tottenham away,bolton away,middlelsborough away seem to be favourites)-for the 'quality of the football' mind-not the chance of a liverpool defeat!!

david moyes antagonistic tubthumping and rafa's daft small club comments don't help either!

i used to want everton to win the league if liverpool couldn't and cheer them on in cup finals if they were not playing liverpool but that ended in the summer (after a year of sly comments and premature text messages near the end of games liverpool seemed to be losing)i supported chelsea in the f.a.cup final and sent a few texts at the end of the game!

i hold nothing against everton as a team-just some supporters!

so there's your answer-ha ha!

[hhhhancock]

name='jaycad']there was a time when liverpool and everton fans sat together and all were proud of their cities achievements as a whole but not now i'm afraid!

the tide seemed to change in the mid 90s where evertonians became very bitter towards liverpool (any evertonian will recognise the term 'bitter blue)and used man utds success to wind up liverpool fans who well and truly fell for it! many evertonians i know get more pleasure from a liverpool defeat than an everton win and i have two evertonian mates who come out to watch certain liverpool games (man utd,chelsea,arsenal,tottenham away,bolton away,middlelsborough away seem to be favourites)-for the 'quality of the football' mind-not the chance of a liverpool defeat!!

david moyes antagonistic tubthumping and rafa's daft small club comments don't help either!

i used to want everton to win the league if liverpool couldn't and cheer them on in cup finals if they were not playing liverpool but that ended in the summer (after a year of sly comments and premature text messages near the end of games liverpool seemed to be losing)i supported chelsea in the f.a.cup final and sent a few texts at the end of the game!

i hold nothing against everton as a team-just some supporters!

so there's your answer-ha ha!

Good stuff Jaycad, I knew I could rely on our forum for some sensible opinions. I'm just waiting on something from Orpheum who's an ardent Arsenal supporter for his views.

[batman]

I have been a Chelsea fan for over 40 years, but I live in Norwich and have attended hundreds of Norwich matches over the years. My dad was an Ipswich fan (which is how I ended up a Chelsea fan, no Norwich fans allowed in our house in the 60s and also because Peter Bonetti was my hero) but he loved to watch Norwich too. In fact, by the end of his life he was possibly an equal supporter of both of them. However he was a rarity. The rivalry between Norwich and Ipswich fans is as intense as any of the 'big city' rivalries. There has been violence over the years and the insults that go back and forth are priceless. The Town fans of my acquaintance are loving every second of Norwich's recent history and have become even worse now that they have a big name boss (although I reckon Paul Lambert is the better manager). Norwich will be back I am sure and their fans will be sure to rub Town noses in it when Roy Keane has left (next Easter is my guess) and the Canaries are back in the Championship.

[jaycad]

i'd love to hear the views of celtic or rangers fans-i just can't understand why they don't get on?............................................... .............................................. snigger

[bluenose]

I'm part of a mixed marriage



Three brothers-in-law who each support Liverpool, Everton and Leeds. A couple still have Seasons after 20 years.



Over time I've been to Everton, with 2 of them, each one using the wife season and me not a hundred miles away. Anfield the same. I don't know why the sisters choose NOT to go to the derbies, but it seems a fair few women supporters sense thats it's not all the camaraderie as the guys make out. As jaycard said, it has changed.

Time was that the "visitor" could leap to his feet when his team scored, and peppered around the stand would be other singles or groups also standing, fists up. No problem.I used to think that they were all the products of dysfunctional families. Like mine.



Shortly after Heysel I noticed the change - this would be the early 80's.Fewer "visitors" ( mates, brothers or whatever) - or fewer wanting to show that they were in the wrong areas. At both grounds, Goodison and Anfield.

I only used to go to the derbies and Man Utd matches at either place - except when my own club was there when I'd go with my fellow bluenoses.



Villa v Blues has always been contentious - although even there I've had to suffer the Holte End because that's where my friend went and he got the tickets. But it was risky even smiling when we used to drub them.





What I think happened is a shift in attitudes.

The old cliches of the 80s:

"Greed is Good".

"Theres no such thing as Society"

"Me first"



That kind of accepted attitude was not common after the war or in the fifties when people could go along together, and be from opposing loyalties.

We used to be "All in it together" then.

And we shared.We were tolerant.



But it started to break down in the 80s when we were told that caring cost money so was wrong, look after yourself and then your family.

Basically - Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm all right.



Things permeate when its drippped daily by the media, politicians and through education.



Attitudes change.



Thats why I have two brother in laws who use different excuses not to go and sit together anymore at a scouse local derby - when their wives knew years ago.

[jaycad]

well said bluenose-you 'bluenose'!! ha ha!!

[winsfordtown]

A couple of weeks ago I watched an old 'Match of the Day' from the last Saturday of the 1964/65 season when Manchester United needed to beat Liverpool at Old Trafford to keep them on course to win the League. What suprised me was the lack of hatred and intimidation from both sets of supporters. Also there was no desire from Liverpool players to kick Manchester United players off the field and stop them winning the title because their supporters demanded it. Liverpool even included Phil Chisnall who had signed from Manchester United. Couldn't imagine any of this happening in 2009.

[jaycad]

name='golightly']Modern Liverpool fans tend to be older and more middle class than their counterparts across the Park and they have a softer humour. Everton is still a working class club and kopites can't seem to handle the saltier insults we hurl at them, but it's not bitterness. We have no reason to be bitter towards a club that hasn't won a title in 20 years, has a massive debt, can't afford to buy new players, plays in a ground that isn't much better than ours, owners who don't speak to each other, feeble youth policy, I could go on and on.

ha ha!! i see david moyes' 'peoples club' tubthumping security blanket is actually believed by people other than the press then? liverpool is as much of a 'working class' club as everton (as if it matters!),everyone from the city and surrounding areas who follows football knows the term 'bitter blue' and your last comments, whilst probably offered in a jocular manner,prove that evertonians are obsessed with liverpool! liverpool fans are not concerned with a team that has not won the league for 23 years,ANYTHING for 14 years,has just as big a debt in relation to their income,can only afford to buy players by selling their best,plays in a knackered ground with a church in it,an owner/chairman who was an extra in 'coronation street' and who runs a mile when asked for some cash,a youth policy whose sole intention is to find a half decent player to sell on to a bigger club,i could go on and on and on.............bugger-i sound like an evertonian! right then,i'm off to eat a bacon butty whilst reading the daily star over a pint of bitter at the working mens club!!

[Edward G]

I echo these sentiments entirely.

This loss of dignity, discipline and sportsmanship (from the pitch outwards) should be a real cause for concern for people who claim to love the game.

Why do we not care more about this?

Shame on football...

name='winsfordtown']A couple of weeks ago I watched an old 'Match of the Day' from the last Saturday of the 1964/65 season when Manchester United needed to beat Liverpool at Old Trafford to keep them on course to win the League. What suprised me was the lack of hatred and intimidation from both sets of supporters. Also there was no desire from Liverpool players to kick Manchester United players off the field and stop them winning the title because their supporters demanded it. Liverpool even included Phil Chisnall who had signed from Manchester United. Couldn't imagine any of this happening in 2009.

[Freddy]

name='golightly']Modern Liverpool fans tend to be older and more middle class than their counterparts across the Park and they have a softer humour. Everton is still a working class club and kopites can't seem to handle the saltier insults we hurl at them, but it's not bitterness. We have no reason to be bitter towards a club that hasn't won a title in 20 years, has a massive debt, can't afford to buy new players, plays in a ground that isn't much better than ours, owners who don't speak to each other, feeble youth policy, I could go on and on.

Someone I know came up to Liverpool one weekend so his wife could catch up with old friends. As Everton were playing at home he went to Goodison. Chatting to the Everton supporter sitting next to him he explained that as he was in Liverpool he thought he'd come and watch a game of football.



"You're be out of luck then" the bloke said, "I've been coming for twenty years and never seen a game of football yet".





Freddy

[Freddy]

name='golightly'] We have no reason to be bitter towards a club that hasn't won a title in 20 years, has a massive debt, can't afford to buy new players, plays in a ground that isn't much better than ours, owners who don't speak to each other, feeble youth policy, I could go on and on.

Some ten years ago I seem to recall the Liverpool Football Echo used to carry of the views of visiting supporters on what the grounds were like and mark them out of five. Anfield always got 4/5 but Goodison often got 1/2 and the remarks from the visiting fans were always less than complimentary. I think the paper scrapped it after a while 'cause of it.





Freddy

[jaycad]

name='Freddy']Some ten years ago I seem to recall the Liverpool Football Echo used to carry of the views of visiting supporters on what the grounds were like and mark them out of five. Anfield always got 4/5 but Goodison often got 1/2 and the remarks from the visiting fans were always less than complimentary. I think the paper scrapped it after a while 'cause of it.





Freddy

i'm not surprised-every time i've been to goodison park,some girl has thrown toffees at me!